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Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:40 pm
by Havard
Halflings make up one of the 7 core classes in BECMI D&D. As such, I think Mystara in general has done them a disservice and the Hollow World in particular. BECMI is probably one of the few systems/editions where Halflings are a pretty awesome PC option too.

So, if you want to play a Halfling who is native to the Hollow World, your only official option seems to be the Merry Pirate Isles.

What are other possible Halfling lands in the Hollow World?

I could see some Arctic Halflings living among the Antalians or Beastmen? Perhaps related to the Hin of Leehashire?

The Gentle Folk were known to associate with the Shaerdon Halflings, but why were only the elves preserved? Could there be a realm of Halflings near the Gentle Folk? If so, what would their culture be like? Lalor would still be a living language. Could they be even more closely tied to the Blackflame, or would this be a pre-Blackflame culture?

I personally like the idea of the Karimari being Jungle Halflings. If so, could similar Halflings exist near the Tanogoro?

What about the original Halfling civilization near Kenaron?

Looking at the unofficial Blackmoor ZGG line, could the Docrae have been preserved?

-Havard

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:10 pm
by Cthulhudrew
This has come up before, but nothing definitive (or even fan-definitive) has really materialized. As I recall, you were the first to suggest something like a group of "Guardian Hin" that helped protect the Gentle Folk.

In a short story Geoff and I began many years ago (and I ended up failing to complete my part in it which would have continued the story- sorry, Geoff!), I was going to introduce a Davanian hin into the Known World. He would have been part of a tribal group from around Arypt who were at near constant war with the Sis'thik that lived there. In any case, the group in my estimation would have been as noted, desert hin. Perhaps there is a group of them in the Hollow World somewhere (in/around Nithia? Or the Krugel Wastes?). There were some discussions (I think here on the forum) about expanding those regions, and halflings factored into that somewhere. At least I recall weighing in with my own vague thoughts.

(Found it! Platea).

Docrae would certainly fit, in/around wherever there might be something Blackmoor related.

Also, like you, I always scratched my head that the Karimari were made human pygmys rather than halflings (given that this is a fantasy game with a ready made race to fit the niche); it's one of the reasons I started thinking about the Aryptian halflings, in fact. In any case, I think some kind of halfling colonies in/around the Serpent Peninsula would make perfect sense, given that the halfling migration stopped there before heading to Shaerdon. They may not currently exist there, but some prehistoric SP halfling culture might still exist in the HW.

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:38 pm
by Sturm
I think Kenaton, the ancient home of the halfling, should be present in the Hollow World. In Threshold issue #9 I placed it in Suridal. Also if Blackmoor and Thonia are in Jhompur as proposed by Havard, halfling could be there too.
And some among the gentle folks would fit too.
Karimari halfling in Tanagoro lands and desert halfling in eastern Nithia also make perfect sense IMHO.

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:27 pm
by Seer of Yhog
I see no reason why Hindon or Shaerdon halflings shouldn't exist in the HW.

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:42 am
by Chimpman
Shaerdon halflings exist in the Hollow Moon in the nation of Shaergarde.
http://pandius.com/hm_mdlnd.html

I'm not sure why Sharon originally placed the Shaerdon hin in the Hollow Moon setting (other than to have a culture of halflings located there)*. I don't think there is anything specifically about them that would warrant placement in a dark world. They could just as easily be placed in the Hollow World. On the other hand the hin of Hindon and Shaerdon are probably pretty close culturally speaking as those two nations existed mere decades apart, with Shaerdon essentially being the successor nation of Hindon (after the orcs and dwarves were overthrown). If Hindon was placed in the Hollow World, then Shaerdon could have been placed in the Hollow Moon just as an experiment of sorts - to see how the two very similar (near identical) cultures would exist in two very different places.

[*From a Hollow Moon perspective, Shaerdon could have been placed inside of Matera to help combat against the kopru, with the hin being more resistant to their compulsion effects than other races.]

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:48 pm
by Seer of Yhog
Chimpman wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:42 am
If Hindon was placed in the Hollow World, then Shaerdon could have been placed in the Hollow Moon just as an experiment of sorts - to see how the two very similar (near identical) cultures would exist in two very different places.
Thanks for reminding us about the hin presence on the HM! But yes, I agree with this perspective...having a survival of Hindon exist in the HW would work. The question would be where to place it. Given Hindon was the precursor to the Shires, it should be hilly, coastal territory with temperate forests. I could see Ka wanting it to be far from orcs and other hazards, so perhaps (if located in Iciria, using this map by Thorf), it could be:

- in the Yshanta Forest, by Thanol Bay
- Lothar Strait (Ka would make the forests more temperate, or there could be temperate patches on an 8-mile hex map)
- the hilly and forested island roughly WNW of the Azcan city of Titlapoca (partly cut off from the map).

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:20 pm
by Chimpman
Seer of Yhog wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:48 pm
The question would be where to place it. Given Hindon was the precursor to the Shires, it should be hilly, coastal territory with temperate forests. I could see Ka wanting it to be far from orcs and other hazards, so perhaps (if located in Iciria, using this map by Thorf), it could be:
Oh... I like these ideas. Part of the fun is giving the hin some new neighbors to deal with so let's examine who they might be near in each of these cases.
Seer of Yhog wrote:- in the Yshanta Forest, by Thanol Bay
I think of all the options this one is my favorite. To the east (HW directions) you have the Tanagoro, while if they travel far enough north they may run into the Kubitts. The real fun one though is to the west... where James Mishler's Bahlor Empire would be. I've always wanted halflings to mix with vampires :twisted: and this might be a good opportunity. It also gives the hin access to a Sea (although to a large extent and inner sea) so they could in theory also visit the Jennites
Seer of Yhog wrote:- Lothar Strait (Ka would make the forests more temperate, or there could be temperate patches on an 8-mile hex map)
This one is actually very similar to the above, however placing them on that peninsula may make them more isolated from the Tanagoro and Kubitts, and put them much closer to Bahlor. They would still have access to the Sea of Yr regardless.
Seer of Yhog wrote:- the hilly and forested island roughly WNW of the Azcan city of Titlapoca (partly cut off from the map).
This one has a very different feel, putting the hin close to the Azca and also potentially with the Colimans, Traldar, and Merry Pirates. I think though, that this is my least favorite just because it mimics in many ways who the hin would have interacted with on the Outer World (Traladara and island nations).

I think ultimately my vote would go for one of the first two options. Option 1 gives them more neighbors to play with, but option 2 definitely puts them in higher peril with Bahlor.

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:21 pm
by Seer of Yhog
I'd go with 1 or 2, myself, as well.

Was a map of the Bahlor Empire ever made by James or the community?

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:37 pm
by Chimpman
Seer of Yhog wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:21 pm
Was a map of the Bahlor Empire ever made by James or the community?
Not that I've ever seen, though I suppose it can't extend too far past the Bahl Mountains. IIRC the idea was that those "mountains" are basically just a really low level floating continent that basically stays in the same place and casts a deep shadow over the lands beneath.

That would be something really cool to put together.

Re: Halflings in the Hollow World?

Posted: Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:34 am
by Sturm
I made a basic map in my Hollow World map: http://pandius.com/Hollow_World_60mph.png and I put HW east of it Tarystia (the culture preceding Minaea) in the Lothar peninsula. The Bahlorian to the north should have centaurs, to the south minotaurs and to the HW west the Milenians.
But there is certainly also space in the Sea of Yr for Hindon as well.
It would be interesting to think about the cultural differences between Kenaton, Hindon, Shaerdon and Shires halfling.