Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

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Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

Has anyone created guidelines for converting both D&D v.3.5 and/or D&D 4E monsters and/or races to AD&D 2nd Edition. I've tried used the AD&D 2E to 3E conversion guide as my basis for going in reverse for new D&D v.3.5 monsters, but I am hoping that I can find a more detailed conversion guide. And for 4E, I really am not sure where to start. I have the key 4E monster books, IMO, but understanding how the mechanics are put together isn't easy for me. :oops:

Suggestions?
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by AuldDragon »

Knightfall wrote:Has anyone created guidelines for converting both D&D v.3.5 and/or D&D 4E monsters and/or races to AD&D 2nd Edition. I've tried used the AD&D 2E to 3E conversion guide as my basis for going in reverse for new D&D v.3.5 monsters, but I am hoping that I can find a more detailed conversion guide. And for 4E, I really am not sure where to start. I have the key 4E monster books, IMO, but understanding how the mechanics are put together isn't easy for me. :oops:

Suggestions?
Honestly, you're best off doing it from scratch. Look at monsters or races that exist in both, and use them as a guideline for the new creature. In particular, the races are not easy to convert since the ability score adjustment scheme and class availability mentality are completely different. Some races that get a penalty to a stat in 2e get a bonus to the same stat in 3e. In my opinion, it is not possible to create standard conversion procedures for those reasons.

That said, creating monsters and races for 2e doesn't take long at all.

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Gecko »

yeah, what AuldDdragon said. Though wasn't there a race creation point buy system somewhere? PO maybe? (mind you I never looked too closely at it so maybe it's rubbish)

Also, wasn't there an optional rule in the DMG about it? And of course a lot of the playable races are covered in the Complete Humanoids handbook.

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by AuldDragon »

Gecko wrote:yeah, what AuldDdragon said. Though wasn't there a race creation point buy system somewhere? PO maybe? (mind you I never looked too closely at it so maybe it's rubbish)
That's just for modifying the existing races rather than creating new ones.
Gecko wrote:Also, wasn't there an optional rule in the DMG about it? And of course a lot of the playable races are covered in the Complete Humanoids handbook.
Yes, there are rules in the DMG, but most canon races don't follow them. Using other existing races as guidelines is a better choice.

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Has anyone created guidelines for converting both D&D v.3.5 and/or D&D 4E monsters and/or races to AD&D 2nd Edition. I've tried used the AD&D 2E to 3E conversion guide as my basis for going in reverse for new D&D v.3.5 monsters, but I am hoping that I can find a more detailed conversion guide. And for 4E, I really am not sure where to start. I have the key 4E monster books, IMO, but understanding how the mechanics are put together isn't easy for me. :oops:

Suggestions?
Honestly, you're best off doing it from scratch. Look at monsters or races that exist in both, and use them as a guideline for the new creature. In particular, the races are not easy to convert since the ability score adjustment scheme and class availability mentality are completely different. Some races that get a penalty to a stat in 2e get a bonus to the same stat in 3e. In my opinion, it is not possible to create standard conversion procedures for those reasons.

That said, creating monsters and races for 2e doesn't take long at all.

Jeff
Well, I'm concerned with converting only the monsters and races that were never seen before 3E/4E. For creatures that appeared in OD&D or 1E/2E, I would start with the 2E baseline and go from there if I was creating a unique NPC or a variant monster.

I'm thinking more about the monsters and races from Eberron, as well as the few v.3.5 monsters that were brand new for 3E/4E.
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

WARFORGED
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any land
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary, pair, or squad
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Nil
INTELLIGENCE: 8-10 (Average)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Lawful neutral

NO. APPEARING: 1 or 2; or 4-20
ARMOR CLASS: 7 (5 w/composite plating)
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE: 1+1
THAC0: 19
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d4 or 1d8 (spear)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Composite plating, fortified, living construct
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: M (6' to 6-1/2' tall)
MORALE: Elite (13) :?:
XP VALUE: 270 :?:

Composite Plating: -2 bonus to armor class but a xx chance for arcane spell failure. It takes the place of worn armor or a magical robe.

Fortified: 25% value; negates criticals and backstabs.

Living Construct: Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, (nausea), (fatigue), exhaustion, energy drain. Cannot heal damage naturally. Affected by spells that target living beings (cure spells) and spells that target constructs. Healing spells only provide half benefits. Disabled at 0 hit points. Can be raised or resurrected. Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. Must rest before preparing spells, if spell-caster.
Last edited by Knightfall on Wed Mar 20, 2013 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by AuldDragon »

Knightfall wrote:Well, I'm concerned with converting only the monsters and races that were never seen before 3E/4E. For creatures that appeared in OD&D or 1E/2E, I would start with the 2E baseline and go from there if I was creating a unique NPC or a variant monster.

I'm thinking more about the monsters and races from Eberron, as well as the few v.3.5 monsters that were brand new for 3E/4E.
Right, what I meant is that if Creature A that is in 2nd ed and 3e as a playable race has a +2 to Str in 2nd ed and a +8 to Str in 3, then Creature B, which is only a playable race in 3e and also has a +8 to Str, should be granted a +2 to Str in 2e. Same thing for creating monsters. And, of course, if you're granting something a +2 in one stat, then you should probably give it a -1 to two other stats or a -2 to one stat to balance it. Play it by ear, use your gut feelings, and compare to existing stats for other creatures to gauge the balance.
Knightfall wrote:WARFORGED
ARMOR CLASS: -7 (-5 w/composite plating)
HIT DICE: 1+1
Uh, should those ACs be positive rather than negative? Such a creature would be impossible to hit (short of a natural 20) for any non-high-level warrior, and by the time they got high enough, they'd probably kill it in one hit.
Knightfall wrote:SPECIAL DEFENSES: Composite plating, fortified, living construct

Composite Plating: -2 bonus to armor class but a xx chance for arcane spell failure. It takes the place of worn armor or a magical robe.

Fortified: 25% value; negates criticals and backstabs.

Living Construct: Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, (nausea), (fatigue), exhaustion, energy drain. Cannot heal damage naturally. Affected by spells that target living beings (cure spells) and spells that target constructs. Healing spells only provide half benefits. Disabled at 0 hit points. Can be raised or resurrected. Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. Must rest before preparing spells, if spell-caster.
As written, many of those special defenses don't mean much in the context of second edition. 2nd Ed doesn't categorize things in that way, nor does it have "slots" for equipment. Monster descriptions also include an introductory section, a combat section, a habitat/society section, and an ecology section; any immunities or powers are detailed in the combat section.

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:WARFORGED
ARMOR CLASS: -7 (-5 w/composite plating)
HIT DICE: 1+1
Uh, should those ACs be positive rather than negative? Such a creature would be impossible to hit (short of a natural 20) for any non-high-level warrior, and by the time they got high enough, they'd probably kill it in one hit.
Whoops.

It was supposed to be AC 7 (5 w/composite plating). The v.3.5 AC is 15.
AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:SPECIAL DEFENSES: Composite plating, fortified, living construct

Composite Plating: -2 bonus to armor class but a xx chance for arcane spell failure. It takes the place of worn armor or a magical robe.

Fortified: 25% value; negates criticals and backstabs.

Living Construct: Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, (nausea), (fatigue), exhaustion, energy drain. Cannot heal damage naturally. Affected by spells that target living beings (cure spells) and spells that target constructs. Healing spells only provide half benefits. Disabled at 0 hit points. Can be raised or resurrected. Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. Must rest before preparing spells, if spell-caster.
As written, many of those special defenses don't mean much in the context of second edition. 2nd Ed doesn't categorize things in that way, nor does it have "slots" for equipment. Monster descriptions also include an introductory section, a combat section, a habitat/society section, and an ecology section; any immunities or powers are detailed in the combat section.

Jeff
Yeah, I know. It's just been so long since I've written a unique monster entry for AD&D 2E that I'm trying to distill the 3e stats down to the basics, and then converting what is left. I'm not worrying about any of the sections until I have a strong grasp of the mechanical changes.

I guess the important parts of Composite Plating are its -2 AC bonus (or maybe it should be only -1) and the chance it gives for spell failure. Of course, spell failure only matters for a character version, but I want to figure out how much it is going to be. The penalty, in 3E terms, is the same as for wearing light armor. (I'll look it up later.)

I see the Fortified ability being done similar to a Thief ability. Its percentile roll should negate/lessen crits and/or backstab damage.

Living Construct is a subtype for 3e, so breaking it down for 2e will be a chore. The immunities are the most important thing: poison (no save required), Sleep, paralysis (no save required), diseases (but not magical diseases), and energy drain.

Magical healing is also key. The cure spells should heal a warforged just like they would heal a standard character or non-construct monster/NPC. And I seem to remember that there are spells in 2E that can "repair" constructs, but I could be mistaken. If so, a warforged would be healed by these spells as well. (It also could be given a healing potion to drink.)

The warforged wouldn't be subject to breathable, gas-based attack spells or effects.
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

Feedback from Facebook group...
Kevin S. wrote:suggested tweaks
as Warforged are a Construct just like Golems, healing spells including Raise Dead & Resurrection will not affect them <they are not truly alive>
however Mend Spell and Restoration WILL work in the following manner
Mend spell = acts like a Cure Light Wounds spell restoring 1D8 HP per casting
Restoration = acts like a Heal Spell restoring all HP save 1D4
any spell that can repair material objects can be used to "heal" Warforged
Warforged being a magically created item can be stopped by Anti-Magic Fields <they will not enter such areas and can sense it>
if an item of strongly Anti-magical property is used on them they will back off <self preservation>
Dispell Magic will work on Warforged but Warforged receive a substantial bonus to their Save

Warforged are in many ways similar to Golems with a few notable differences
Warforged ARE Self Aware so they can act freely and can fully understand complex commands
creating one might require the life force of a living being to be Bound into the Warforged Shell
the Armored Shell is strongly enchanted to provide maximum protection
usually plate steel or even Mithril can be used
Full Plate <steel> prevents casting of spells
Full Plate <Mithril> chance of Spell Failure = 30%
<High & Grey Elves have crafted Mithril armor that allows spellcasting for armor types that would not otherwise grant that ability>
Composite Armor, this specially crafted lightweight Armored Shell is specifically designed for Warforged Casters in such that it does not incur a penalty to Casting while providing as much protection as possible
also strongly Enchanted
usual materials are Dragonhide or other Highly Magical creature

Warforged are not a low end creature so 1 HD is woefully ineffective
the basic Trooper will have a -5 or better AC in combat equal to that of a 6th or greater level Fighter
so I would recommend the common Grunt Trooper be 6th level Fighter
Warforged Sergeant = 10th Lvl Fighter
Warforged Captain = 15th Lvl Fighter
Warforged General = DM Special
Warforged Wizard = 8th lvl Wizard
Warforged Archmage = 16th lvl Wizard
Warforged Grand Magus = DM Special
Warforged Cleric = 8th lvl Cleric
Warforged Spirit Binder = 16th lvl Cleric

XP award as per level of Warforged Class fighter, Cleric or wizard

Warforged may use any weapon in accordance with their class
Unarmed Damage = 1D6 punch. 1D8 Kick/Stomp
Warforged may learn Martial Arts*
treat all Warforged as 18/00 Strength for damage adjustment
Warforged INT. 16+ 1D4 for a range of 17-20
Warforged DEX. 12+ 1D6 for a range of 13-18
Warforged WIS. 14+ 1D6 for a range of 15-20
Warforged are not pretty to look at <I'm a big Magically Enchanted suit of armor designed to kick large amounts of Tailgate>
made for war, they suffer a sizable penalty to CHA & Reaction Adjustment towards non Warforged <most people are scared of them>
Warforged have no CON. score of note as the Armored Shell provides their HP so in this respect all Warforged of a given Class/Level will have the same amount of Hit Points

while 3.5 considers Warforged a Player Class one must remember

Someone MADE them!
Warforged are not capable of natural reproduction
although a Warforged Archmage can build additional Warforged
a life force is required to create one and animate the completed Shell
it is this aspect that causes much of the Fear directed at Warforged
and Warforged will not take just anyone
they seek those of exceptional attributes for making new Warforged
so it is not uncommon for a group of them to hire out a Mercenaries for war <its a great source of skilled and exceptional Warriors who fall in battle>
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by AuldDragon »

Kevin S. wrote:suggested tweaks
as Warforged are a Construct just like Golems, healing spells including Raise Dead & Resurrection will not affect them <they are not truly alive>
however Mend Spell and Restoration WILL work in the following manner
Mend spell = acts like a Cure Light Wounds spell restoring 1D8 HP per casting
Restoration = acts like a Heal Spell restoring all HP save 1D4
any spell that can repair material objects can be used to "heal" Warforged
Warforged being a magically created item can be stopped by Anti-Magic Fields <they will not enter such areas and can sense it>
if an item of strongly Anti-magical property is used on them they will back off <self preservation>
Dispell Magic will work on Warforged but Warforged receive a substantial bonus to their Save
Mending does not affect magic items; while I suppose I could see golems not counting as magic items in this regard, I'm not a fan of that interpretation. Part of the problem is magic items of every sort are MUCH harder to create and maintain in 2nd edition than in 3e. Repairing a golem has always seemed to me to be something quite difficult, only easy in comparison to building a whole new golem. That said, the Van Richten's Guide that covered golems made that less difficult by granting them high-constitution regeneration, which I also kind of like. I'm not sure how that would apply to Warforged.

Restoration, on the other hand, should not function as a heal spell. While it can restore some physical features of creatures (but specifically not hit points), it is mainly for restoring life energy and mental status.

Not every magic effect can be dispelled with Dispel Magic; it cannot be used to destroy a golem.
Kevin S. wrote:Warforged are in many ways similar to Golems with a few notable differences
Warforged ARE Self Aware so they can act freely and can fully understand complex commands
creating one might require the life force of a living being to be Bound into the Warforged Shell
the Armored Shell is strongly enchanted to provide maximum protection
usually plate steel or even Mithril can be used
Full Plate <steel> prevents casting of spells
Full Plate <Mithril> chance of Spell Failure = 30%
<High & Grey Elves have crafted Mithril armor that allows spellcasting for armor types that would not otherwise grant that ability>
Composite Armor, this specially crafted lightweight Armored Shell is specifically designed for Warforged Casters in such that it does not incur a penalty to Casting while providing as much protection as possible
also strongly Enchanted
usual materials are Dragonhide or other Highly Magical creature
What exactly would "composite armor" be? Are Warforged supposed to be hosts for an existing spirit, or are they automatons with greater capability to understand commands? I can't really comment on the rest of this until I see it more in context. I don't really know anything about Warforged, either their statistics/powers or how they fit they settings they were included in.
Kevin S. wrote:Warforged are not a low end creature so 1 HD is woefully ineffective
the basic Trooper will have a -5 or better AC in combat equal to that of a 6th or greater level Fighter
so I would recommend the common Grunt Trooper be 6th level Fighter
Warforged Sergeant = 10th Lvl Fighter
Warforged Captain = 15th Lvl Fighter
Warforged General = DM Special
Warforged Wizard = 8th lvl Wizard
Warforged Archmage = 16th lvl Wizard
Warforged Grand Magus = DM Special
Warforged Cleric = 8th lvl Cleric
Warforged Spirit Binder = 16th lvl Cleric

XP award as per level of Warforged Class fighter, Cleric or wizard
Many of those levels seem awfully high. 8th Level wizards and clerics, and 10th level fighters, are pretty rare, even for a high level party to encounter. I'd need to know more about how they fit into the world to judge this.
Kevin S. wrote:Warforged may use any weapon in accordance with their class
Unarmed Damage = 1D6 punch. 1D8 Kick/Stomp
Warforged may learn Martial Arts*
treat all Warforged as 18/00 Strength for damage adjustment
Warforged INT. 16+ 1D4 for a range of 17-20
Warforged DEX. 12+ 1D6 for a range of 13-18
Warforged WIS. 14+ 1D6 for a range of 15-20
Warforged are not pretty to look at <I'm a big Magically Enchanted suit of armor designed to kick large amounts of Tailgate>
made for war, they suffer a sizable penalty to CHA & Reaction Adjustment towards non Warforged <most people are scared of them>
Warforged have no CON. score of note as the Armored Shell provides their HP so in this respect all Warforged of a given Class/Level will have the same amount of Hit Points
These statistics seem awfully high, as does the physical damage if they're supposed to be fighting with weapons. If their hit points are based on their form, rather than their class, then the way you figure their abilities and hit dice would be different. I can go into more depth on handling class abilities/levels for creatures that aren't calculated as player characters if you'd like.

Jeff
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by dulsi »

I kinda feel the facebook input wasn't very good.
Kevin S. wrote:Warforged being a magically created item can be stopped by Anti-Magic Fields <they will not enter such areas and can sense it>
if an item of strongly Anti-magical property is used on them they will back off <self preservation>
Dispell Magic will work on Warforged but Warforged receive a substantial bonus to their Save
I don't think that was the case in 3.5. In fact that was one of the reasons some have gone into the Mornlands I believe.
AuldDragon wrote:Are Warforged supposed to be hosts for an existing spirit, or are they automatons with greater capability to understand commands? I can't really comment on the rest of this until I see it more in context. I don't really know anything about Warforged, either their statistics/powers or how they fit they settings they were included in.
It's not fully defined AFAIK. The warforged are the latest in a line of golems created for war by one of the dragonmark houses (or country I don't remember). The process of creation wasn't known to many. I don't think they have ever said they host an existing spirit.
AuldDragon wrote:Many of those levels seem awfully high. 8th Level wizards and clerics, and 10th level fighters, are pretty rare, even for a high level party to encounter. I'd need to know more about how they fit into the world to judge this.
One of my friends would cringe at those level suggestions. Eberron in general tries not to have a large number of high level NPCs. This is to keep the focus on the PCs. Warforged were simply mass marketed warrior golems. I can only imagine that the lower level versions would cost less so that they would be the bulk of the fighting force.
Kevin S. wrote:Warforged have no CON. score of note as the Armored Shell provides their HP so in this respect all Warforged of a given Class/Level will have the same amount of Hit Points
This comment particularly stands out to me. Warforged do have CON in 3.5. That is one of the differences in a Living Construct vs a Construct.
AuldDragon wrote:These statistics seem awfully high
I have to agree that the suggested statistics are just off the wall IMHO.
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

Thanks for the insights, guys. If you have any more, post 'em. I'll get back to this thread once I have a better handle on my "Heart of Darkness" research essay.
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by AuldDragon »

Knightfall wrote:Thanks for the insights, guys. If you have any more, post 'em. I'll get back to this thread once I have a better handle on my "Heart of Darkness" research essay.
I'd highly recommend having more information about how a creature would fit into a setting when you post the stats. It makes it much easier to determine whether the stats are appropriate or not.

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

AuldDragon and dulsi, what would your remove completely.

Composite Plating: -2/-1 bonus to armor class but a 15% chance (???) for arcane spell failure.

It takes the place of worn armor or a magical robe. | No slots in AD&D 2E?

Fortified: 25% value; negates critical hits and backstabs.

Living Construct: Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, (nausea), (fatigue), exhaustion, energy drain. | I must remember to look up AD&D 2E conditions. :|

Cannot heal damage naturally. | Should be allowed to be repaired?

Affected by spells that target living beings (cure spells) and spells that target constructs. | Mend spell heals, as per suggestion from Facebook?

Healing spells only provide half benefits.

Disabled at 0 hit points. | But not dying?

Can be raised or resurrected. | Would you allow both? What about resurrection?

Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. | This would be vital for warforged PCs.

Must rest before preparing spells, if spell-caster. | Warforged don't sleep.
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Thanks for the insights, guys. If you have any more, post 'em. I'll get back to this thread once I have a better handle on my "Heart of Darkness" research essay.
I'd highly recommend having more information about how a creature would fit into a setting when you post the stats. It makes it much easier to determine whether the stats are appropriate or not.

Jeff
If I was going to place the warforged into one of my own settings, it would likely be for Warped World. The setting is a flat world that is demiplanar in origin. It it eclectic and almost anything can exist within it. The "created" warforged of Warped World would be the creation of a mad genius most likely, although there could be high warforged that were given a spark of destiny by a godling or other immortal being. A creation of Primus (or just a very powerful modron), perhaps?
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by AuldDragon »

Knightfall wrote:AuldDragon and dulsi, what would your remove completely.

Composite Plating: -2/-1 bonus to armor class but a 15% chance (???) for arcane spell failure.

It takes the place of worn armor or a magical robe. | No slots in AD&D 2E?
There are no equipment slots in AD&D; logic governs who can wear what, other than a few specific rules (only two rings operate at a time; specific classes can't use specific items, etc.). Anything with a neck can wear a cloak, for example, so long as it wouldn't be illogical (a naga could wear a cloak, but it would probably cause movement issues, for example). If having this composite plating would prevent the creature from wearing anything in particular, it would be described in the text. That said, armor would need to be custom-made for it anyway, unless it has a body that matches a standard race.
Knightfall wrote:Fortified: 25% value; negates critical hits and backstabs.
"Fortified" means nothing in AD&D. Note that backstabbing only works on biological humanoids with an organ layout similar to a human; warforged would be immune unless they have critical weak points in their construction in similar positions as vital human organs. I see no reason for them to be less susceptible to critical hits though. If using the Combat & Tactics critical hit tables, you could give them a +4 bonus to the Save vs. Death rolled to avoid specific effects (like destroyed limbs). I wouldn't give them an out on the damage, though, considering how rare it is.
Knightfall wrote:Living Construct: Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, (nausea), (fatigue), exhaustion, energy drain. | I must remember to look up AD&D 2E conditions. :|

Cannot heal damage naturally. | Should be allowed to be repaired?

Affected by spells that target living beings (cure spells) and spells that target constructs. | Mend spell heals, as per suggestion from Facebook?

Healing spells only provide half benefits.

Can be raised or resurrected. | Would you allow both? What about resurrection?
Energy Draining would depend on whether they have a soul or not. If the soul is bound to the body during construction, then raising and resurrection would not function. If a soul is created as part of the construction, then I suppose resurrection might work, but I'd say the body should be whole and intact to work. Healing spells wouldn't work if they don't have biological bodies. Mending might work if Enchant and Item is cast first, but it shouldn't work on its own since it doesn't affect magic items. Special spells could developed, but they should apply only to them, and they shouldn't be as effective as healing spells IMO.
Knightfall wrote:Disabled at 0 hit points. | But not dying?
If they don't get the Hovering on Death's Door rule, then they should be dead at 0 hit points; otherwise, how do they die?
Knightfall wrote:Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. | This would be vital for warforged PCs.
If they don't eat, I don't see why they'd benefit from potions and such.
Knightfall wrote:Must rest before preparing spells, if spell-caster. | Warforged don't sleep.
Yes, they'd still have to follow the rules for memorization as other creatures; as do elves, who also don't sleep. They'd just have to spend the time in meditation or low activity.
Knightfall wrote:A creation of Primus (or just a very powerful modron), perhaps?
I don't see Primus or the modrons as having much to do with a creation outside of Mechanus; if they needed something done, they'd just send one of the lower modrons.

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Knightfall »

AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:AuldDragon and dulsi, what would your remove completely.

Composite Plating: -2/-1 bonus to armor class but a 15% chance (???) for arcane spell failure.

It takes the place of worn armor or a magical robe. | No slots in AD&D 2E?
There are no equipment slots in AD&D; logic governs who can wear what, other than a few specific rules (only two rings operate at a time; specific classes can't use specific items, etc.). Anything with a neck can wear a cloak, for example, so long as it wouldn't be illogical (a naga could wear a cloak, but it would probably cause movement issues, for example). If having this composite plating would prevent the creature from wearing anything in particular, it would be described in the text. That said, armor would need to be custom-made for it anyway, unless it has a body that matches a standard race.
Have you seen images for Warforged? If not, here's what the most basic warforged looks like. It's v.3.5 and 4E PC race stats can be seen on the Eberron Wiki. A warforged isn't just metal; it is also made from wood and stone. Normally they are Medium-sized, but there warforged that can be larger or even quadrupedal. [Google Image Gallery]

Image

Its body doesn't allow for the wearing of standard armor. Instead, a warforged upgrades itself with better armor plating. It would be able to wear a cloak without difficulty, although a robe might be more problematic. Likely, a warforged that would choose to be a spellcaster would forgo metal plating and be mainly a wood frame, which would decrease its AC. Then a robe would fit it properly. Warforged in Eberron are highly varied. For Warped World, I'm thinking that most of them would be less robust with few metal plates.
AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Fortified: 25% value; negates critical hits and backstabs.
"Fortified" means nothing in AD&D. Note that backstabbing only works on biological humanoids with an organ layout similar to a human; warforged would be immune unless they have critical weak points in their construction in similar positions as vital human organs. I see no reason for them to be less susceptible to critical hits though. If using the Combat & Tactics critical hit tables, you could give them a +4 bonus to the Save vs. Death rolled to avoid specific effects (like destroyed limbs). I wouldn't give them an out on the damage, though, considering how rare it is.
That's what i thought. The inside of the warforged is a complex construct, and I could see them having critical weaknesses similar to organs. After all, a warforged is a living construct. at the very least, a warforged should have a heart and a brain, although the location of those constructed organs might vary.

The Eberron Wiki has the following 4E PC trait, which could be useful.
Warforged Resilience: Warforged receive a +2 racial bonus to saving throws against ongoing damage and can choose to take 10 on a death saving throw.
The +4 vs. Death Magic you've suggested seems like a good idea for the C&T critical tables. Or perhaps a standard +1/+2 racial bonus to saving throws vs. Death Magic?
AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Living Construct: Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, (nausea), (fatigue), exhaustion, energy drain. | I must remember to look up AD&D 2E conditions. :|

Cannot heal damage naturally. | Should be allowed to be repaired?

Affected by spells that target living beings (cure spells) and spells that target constructs. | Mend spell heals, as per suggestion from Facebook?

Healing spells only provide half benefits.

Can be raised or resurrected. | Would you allow both? What about resurrection?
Energy Draining would depend on whether they have a soul or not. If the soul is bound to the body during construction, then raising and resurrection would not function. If a soul is created as part of the construction, then I suppose resurrection might work, but I'd say the body should be whole and intact to work. Healing spells wouldn't work if they don't have biological bodies. Mending might work if Enchant and Item is cast first, but it shouldn't work on its own since it doesn't affect magic items. Special spells could developed, but they should apply only to them, and they shouldn't be as effective as healing spells IMO.
I would say yes to warforged having a soul. In Eberron, they are considered sentient beings with free will after the end of the Final War. For Warped World, their sentience will likely be a new discovery that isn't widely accepted yet. Regardless, they will still have a soul. In Eberron, I believe the soul usually comes from a bound elemental, but I don't have to limit myself to that idea. Perhaps the souls bound to the warforged vary on its origin. There may be warforged with angelic, demonic, or diabolic souls. The souls may come from the recently deceased. The souls might be spontaneous. i haven't decided and all of these examples might be possible.

Since they are metal, stone, and wood, it could be argued there is an elemental nature to them. Plant-based spells might partially heal them? Stone to Flesh and Heat Metal would be very bad for them. Warforged who upgrade themselves with magical enchantments would be able to use Mend for its armor plating, which would be like healing (at half power?) for them. New spells are a good idea and I could use the d20 System spells (for soulmechs) from Dragonstar as a guide.
AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Disabled at 0 hit points. | But not dying?
If they don't get the Hovering on Death's Door rule, then they should be dead at 0 hit points; otherwise, how do they die?
I'm still not sure which way to go for this issue. Perhaps a warforged PC who drops to 0 hit points become inert. He/she isn't dead, but if the warforged is to survive, a friend is going to have to mend him/her. If left too long, the soul fades away and the warforged is dead.
AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. | This would be vital for warforged PCs.
If they don't eat, I don't see why they'd benefit from potions and such.
While it's an important aspect of the 3E warforged, it might not be a requirement for a 2E version. After all, there are magical oils, which could act like potions for a warforged PC.
AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Must rest before preparing spells, if spell-caster. | Warforged don't sleep.
Yes, they'd still have to follow the rules for memorization as other creatures; as do elves, who also don't sleep. They'd just have to spend the time in meditation or low activity.
The 4E racial traits listed on the Eberron Wiki hold the key, IMO.
Unsleeping Watcher: Warforged do not sleep and instead enter a sort of stand by mode where they are completely inactive but are fully aware of their surroundings and can notice events such as conversations and the movement of people. In this mode the warforged only need 4 hours until they are considered fully rested.
A warforged PC would have to rest as long as an elf for 2E. NPCs that know that a warforged can perceive their conversations while in stand-by mode would be very wary of these beings. I can image small or tiny warforged that are constructed to be spies.
AuldDragon wrote:
Knightfall wrote:A creation of Primus (or just a very powerful modron), perhaps?
I don't see Primus or the modrons as having much to do with a creation outside of Mechanus; if they needed something done, they'd just send one of the lower modrons.

Jeff
Well, for Warped World, perhaps there is a barrier that prevents modrons from entering the demiplane. There is a touch of the chaotic to it all. Primus places a modron soul into a warforged and sends it into Warped World to spy on those that follow the ways of Chaos. The modron would be at risk for madness regardless of how perfect a warforged shell can be constructed. :idea:
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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Bouv »

Is there a guide? I'd sure love to know! I've tried to retro-convert some 4e monsters to BECMI. Haven't had a chance to test them out yet. Essentially I started with the hit points and figured out how many d8's it would take and went from there.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=10999

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by AuldDragon »

Bouv wrote:Is there a guide? I'd sure love to know! I've tried to retro-convert some 4e monsters to BECMI. Haven't had a chance to test them out yet. Essentially I started with the hit points and figured out how many d8's it would take and went from there.

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=10999
The only guide to monster creation in 2e (and 1e, and AFAIK BECMI) is other extant monsters. The only parts of monster stats that are essentially not arbitrary are THAC0 and XP. I would also be careful about using the HP listed, as there was quite a bit of power inflation from earlier editions. Your best bet is to look at other monsters from the same edition with similar stats that appeared in the target edition, and then extrapolate from there.

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by Bouv »

Yeah, that definitely was in my mind. But if I were to use these with my current campaign, my players are pushing up against 10th level, with a lot of the campaign mapped out so it might be a while before they encounter some of these guys, if at all. I definitely want to incorporate the Skull Lord somehow 'cause I think that would be a fun battle...to see if fall only to rise again, minus a head, and keep fighting!

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Re: Converting D&D v.3.5e/4e monsters/races to AD&D 2E?

Post by dulsi »

Knightfall wrote:Composite Plating: -2/-1 bonus to armor class but a 15% chance (???) for arcane spell failure.

It takes the place of worn armor or a magical robe. | No slots in AD&D 2E?
3.5e had that they couldn't wear armor and used feats to get better armor. 4e had them wear armor mechanically but said it upgraded their plating. Since 2e doesn't have feats I'd go with the later but I think having composite plating as a base with a small spell failure chance is reasonable. I'd probably make it 5% like 3.5. If the class/kit can cast arcane spells while wearing some armor, the spell failure goes away.
Knightfall wrote:Fortified: 25% value; negates critical hits and backstabs.
I'd probably leave this in even if there is no precedent in 2e. Alternatively, you could drop the critical hits part and say you normally can't backstab golems but the warforged aren't as sturdy and have a 25% chance to negate backstab.
Knightfall wrote:Living Construct: Immune to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, (nausea), (fatigue), exhaustion, energy drain. | I must remember to look up AD&D 2E conditions. :|
They aren't immune to energy drain.
Knightfall wrote:Cannot heal damage naturally. | Should be allowed to be repaired?

Affected by spells that target living beings (cure spells) and spells that target constructs. | Mend spell heals, as per suggestion from Facebook?

Healing spells only provide half benefits.

Disabled at 0 hit points. | But not dying?
I would keep all of these. In response to AuldDragon, at 0 hit points the warforged is rendered inert. He is not dieing but he will never recover unless someone heals him. At -10, he would be destroyed. In Eberron, the warforged were created recently enough that it is unknown how long they can survive.
Knightfall wrote:Can be raised or resurrected. | Would you allow both? What about resurrection?
Yes to both.
Knightfall wrote:Does not need to eat, sleep, or breathe, but can still benefit from the effects of consumable spells and magic items. | This would be vital for warforged PCs.
I would keep that because it was the purpose behind the warforged design.
Knightfall wrote:Must rest before preparing spells, if spell-caster. | Warforged don't sleep.
Yes.

I too have a hard time seeing Primus creating them (although my knowledge of Planescape is limited). The shape seems unmodron like. I could see a mage altering modrons into warforged.
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