How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

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How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Sun Mar 24, 2019 12:08 pm

I already made a list of AD&D 1st Ed Settings, so Big Mac suggested I make a similar thread about AD&D 2nd Ed settings. How many settings were published for 2nd Edition?

Published Settings by TSR/WotC Published Settings by Other Publishers I'm sure there are many I've forgotten. The 2nd Ed era was so rich with campaign setting material. What did I miss? :)


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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by lookatroopa » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:18 pm

Pelinore didn't get any 2nd edition releases that I could find, and Shadow of the Spider Moon uses the d20 system. There's a bunch of material for historical settings spread across the Historical Reference series of sourcebooks and several Dragon articles, as well as Diablo II if you want to count it.

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by zontoxira » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:10 pm

Wasn't Kingdoms of Kalamar the very first 3e setting?
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Dragonhelm » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 pm

Havard, you misspelled Al-Qadim.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:15 pm

Is Dragon Fist a 2e setting? Or is already a 3e setting?

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:48 pm

lookatroopa wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:18 pm
Pelinore didn't get any 2nd edition releases that I could find, and Shadow of the Spider Moon uses the d20 system. There's a bunch of material for historical settings spread across the Historical Reference series of sourcebooks and several Dragon articles, as well as Diablo II if you want to count it.
Great input! I took a second look and can't find anything for 2nd ed for Pelinore either. Will remove that and Spider Moon.

Will add:
Earth: Historical Reference Seres
Diablo II

Thanks!

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:53 pm

zontoxira wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:10 pm
Wasn't Kingdoms of Kalamar the very first 3e setting?
Yes, that is correct, but I believe there was a published book for it before 3E came out as well. Started a separate thread to see if we can get that confirmed.
Dragonhelm wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:16 pm
Havard, you misspelled Al-Qadim.
Thanks! I always do that :facepalm: Fixed now! :) Thanks for helping! :)

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:54 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:15 pm
Is Dragon Fist a 2e setting? Or is already a 3e setting?
Good one!
From what I understand it was a variant of the 2nd Ed rules.

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:22 pm

Havard wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:53 pm
zontoxira wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:10 pm
Wasn't Kingdoms of Kalamar the very first 3e setting?
Yes, that is correct, but I believe there was a published book for it before 3E came out as well. Started a separate thread to see if we can get that confirmed.
Kingdoms of Kalamar predated 3rd Edition D&D, but was never an official AD&D 1e or 2e product (it was unofficial).

Wizards of the Coast broke copyright law, by making digital copies of Dragon/Dungeon magazines, when they didn't have reprint rights for material from Kenzer and Company.

Kenzer and Company and Wizards of the Coast settled out of court, with K&C getting the rights to put the 3e Dungeons & Dragons logo onto their Kingdoms of Kalamar products and use IP from out of print D&D settings in their Hackmaster product range.

After a while, WotC started bouncing back products that K&C were sending for review and K&C couldn't get anything finished. So they abandoned the deal.

I think that some 3rd Edition Kingdoms of Kalamar products got published without the official D&D logo on them.

After a while both the Hackmaster and Kingdoms of Kalamar product lines got stopped. The old Hackmaster setting was abandoned and a new version of Hackmaster was created that used Kingdoms of Kalamar as it's setting.

So Kingdoms of Kalamar has gone from being an AD&D compatible world, to an official 3e world to a non-D&D world.

You might also want to look into the older version of Hackmaster as I have heard there is some level of compatibility with 2nd Edition. (I'm not sure of the HM edition. It might be 3e.) Night Druid and GM Westermeyer are both published Hackmaster authors. (They wrote Hackjammer - the Hackmaster conversion of Spelljammer.) They might be able to tell you how closely related Hackmaster is to 2e.

Meanwhile, George.Fields might be able to confirm if the old Kingdoms of Kalamar stuff is 1e AD&D or 2e AD&D compatible. I'll see if I can get him to respond to your other topic.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:17 pm

Doesn't Kalamar has a 4e book as well? I remember that was quite polemic back in the day, because they released that book without adhering to the 4e GSL's politics.

Anyways, Havard, are you going to make similar lists for 3.x, 4e and 5e? I can help with the 4e one.

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Boneguard » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:41 pm

Havard wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:53 pm
zontoxira wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:10 pm
Wasn't Kingdoms of Kalamar the very first 3e setting?
Yes, that is correct, but I believe there was a published book for it before 3E came out as well. Started a separate thread to see if we can get that confirmed.
This list might help. It does indeed look like there were some 2nd ed stuff.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by night_druid » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:17 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:22 pm
You might also want to look into the older version of Hackmaster as I have heard there is some level of compatibility with 2nd Edition. (I'm not sure of the HM edition. It might be 3e.) Night Druid and GM Westermeyer are both published Hackmaster authors. (They wrote Hackjammer - the Hackmaster conversion of Spelljammer.) They might be able to tell you how closely related Hackmaster is to 2e.
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Kalamar was initially systemless, in a fashion similar to the Greyhawk folio. The boxed set simply describes the kingdoms and gods in generic terms that do not specify a particular system. AKA you do not have NPCs with stats, new spells, new classes, or the like. Deities use stats like "Holy Symbol", "Area of Concern", and other generic statistics.

Hackmaster 4th Edition was effectively the 2e Skills & Powers system, with tweaks to eliminate certain problems with said system (such as different classes having different points allocated to them).

Garweeze Wurld is the default Hackmaster 4e setting so you could probably count it as a "2e" setting.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Dread Delgath » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:58 pm

Havard wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:54 pm
Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:15 pm
Is Dragon Fist a 2e setting? Or is already a 3e setting?
Good one!
From what I understand it was a variant of the 2nd Ed rules.

-Havard
I have Dragon Fist on PDF, and yes, it is a variant based on 2e rules. :cool:

I only have one Kalamar 'module', but one of my players is an avid HM fan. I believe he has everything produced for the Kingdom of Kalamar for HM. I'll ask if he has any Kalamar products for systems other than HM.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:11 pm

I am uncertain to whether Hackmaster settings should be included. Is Hackmaster closer to AD&D 2nd Edition than it is to AD&D 1st Edition? Or is it more of a mix of the two?

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by night_druid » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:42 pm

Havard wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:11 pm
I am uncertain to whether Hackmaster settings should be included. Is Hackmaster closer to AD&D 2nd Edition than it is to AD&D 1st Edition? Or is it more of a mix of the two?
Hackmaster 4e is an adaptation of the 2e Skills & Powers system. Not quite the same, but the system is a good 90%+ Skills & Powers.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:45 pm

night_druid wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:42 pm
Havard wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:11 pm
I am uncertain to whether Hackmaster settings should be included. Is Hackmaster closer to AD&D 2nd Edition than it is to AD&D 1st Edition? Or is it more of a mix of the two?
Hackmaster 4e is an adaptation of the 2e Skills & Powers system. Not quite the same, but the system is a good 90%+ Skills & Powers.
Ah, when you mentioned S&P I thought you were speaking figuratively. I didnt realize HM was that similar to S&P.

I will add it to this list then!

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by night_druid » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:52 pm

Havard wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:45 pm
Ah, when you mentioned S&P I thought you were speaking figuratively. I didnt realize HM was that similar to S&P.
There are some tweaks, chief being they dropped classes having certain points and instead giving PCs the same amount of points at start, adjusted by high stats in some attributes (to eliminate "dump stating") and making you purchase race/classes. Like S&P you can buy certain perks with any leftover points (such as a +1 bonus to hit with axes, for example), and if you find yourself short you can use quirks/flaws to get more points. Although this can be crippling if you chance it and roll something really bad, like a missing arm or leg. Random rolls get more points than cherry picking flaws, but downright risky.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by apotheot » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:28 am

If you are including information from settings detailed in Dungeon/Dragon/Polyhedron magazines you would have to include Malatra: The Living Jungle as a sub-setting. Other Living campaign settings were less evolved in the magazines, and instead simply built on rules for existing settings to create their campaigns. But Malatra, with unique races, classes, and rules really doesn't qualify as just a campaign from an existing setting.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:53 am

apotheot wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:28 am
If you are including information from settings detailed in Dungeon/Dragon/Polyhedron magazines you would have to include Malatra: The Living Jungle as a sub-setting. Other Living campaign settings were less evolved in the magazines, and instead simply built on rules for existing settings to create their campaigns. But Malatra, with unique races, classes, and rules really doesn't qualify as just a campaign from an existing setting.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Cromstar » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:41 am

So, I figured I'd mention the following, similar to some of the above discussions. Upfront warning though: I don't actually own any of the products directly for these two games/settings/systems proper so my knowledge is limited and based on what sources I do have and knowledge I have gleaned from sources on the internet.

Gamma World's 4th edition dropped much of its own 3rd Edition core game system for a system that was a modified version of D&D's 2nd Edition (GW4E came out in 1992 and was dead the next year so...this would make sense). I don't know much about the full variations from core 2nd Edition mechanics, but I do know that Dragon Magazine published an official converter so that you could convert stats from Gamma World 4th Edition to AD&D 2nd Edition and back with no problems, and it mostly involved referencing your stats on tables and putting in the new numbers. Most of the common play mechanics seem to be pretty similar based on that article.

Similarly, Alternity, a system published in 1998 (and the system for which Gamma World's 5th edition would be made coincidentally) may have been compatible and/or based off of 2nd Edition. I honestly had never even heard of Alternity except for the Monstrous Compendium Annual Volume 4 (which was published in 1998 I believe), which we owned. For some reason, in addition to collecting monsters from Dragon and Dungeon magazines and a bunch of accessories and adventures for other settings, they included a full 2nd Edition MC entry for an Alternity creature (the Fraal), complete with the Alternity system logo on the page. I would later find Alternity stuff in later Dragon magazines that had been printed after my father was no longer subscribed to the magazine, however. Some of these articles included details about converting or borrowing ideas from one system for the other, and the fact that apparently their creature compendia were the same as those for 2nd Edition (the MCA4 page directly lists the Alternity source book for the credit and implies the entire entry is taken wholesale from that source) would, to me, imply that the game system probably wasn't that different.

Both were published in the life span of 2nd Edition and maybe others familiar with them can confirm how much they derived or varied from core 2nd Edition rules. Actually, Alternity seems similar to the Buck Rogers game, in that from what I've read in the dragon articles, one of the bigger changes was using proficiencies more like the thief skills mechanic.

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:54 pm

Don't forget Time of The Dragon for Dragonlance. I don't have a lot of love for Dragonlance itself, but that sub-setting is one of my favorite settings. Would be useful for running adventures on worlds that have oceans of magma and lava instead of regular water.
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Digitalelf » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:20 am

Cromstar wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:41 am
apparently their creature compendia were the same as those for 2nd Edition (the MCA4 page directly lists the Alternity source book for the credit and implies the entire entry is taken wholesale from that source) would, to me, imply that the game system probably wasn't that different.
The mechanics of Alternity were fairly different from 2nd edition AD&D, as was the formatting of things like "monster" entries. That being said, there were rules for converting 2nd edition characters to Alternity at the end of the (2e) boxed adventure "Tales of the Comet", which like the Gamma World conversion in Dragon Magazine, was about 3 pages long.

The MC entry of the Fraal you speak of, was converted from the Alternity system (and formatting) to 2nd edition. Buck Rogers on the other hand, which did use 2nd edition rules, had "monster" entries that used the same format as the 2e AD&D MC and MM. I mean, if one didn't know any better, and had the two mixed together, you'd be hard pressed to notice. Not so with Alternity and 2e creatures.

EDIT to add: Dragon Magazine had a series of 3 articles that converted three Alternity aliens to 2nd edition AD&D:

The Sesheyans (Issue #251)
The Fraal (Issue #253)
The T'sa (Issue #257)
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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:01 pm

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by Havard » Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:05 pm

Digitalelf wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:20 am
Cromstar wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:41 am
apparently their creature compendia were the same as those for 2nd Edition (the MCA4 page directly lists the Alternity source book for the credit and implies the entire entry is taken wholesale from that source) would, to me, imply that the game system probably wasn't that different.
The mechanics of Alternity were fairly different from 2nd edition AD&D, as was the formatting of things like "monster" entries. That being said, there were rules for converting 2nd edition characters to Alternity at the end of the (2e) boxed adventure "Tales of the Comet", which like the Gamma World conversion in Dragon Magazine, was about 3 pages long.

The MC entry of the Fraal you speak of, was converted from the Alternity system (and formatting) to 2nd edition. Buck Rogers on the other hand, which did use 2nd edition rules, had "monster" entries that used the same format as the 2e AD&D MC and MM. I mean, if one didn't know any better, and had the two mixed together, you'd be hard pressed to notice. Not so with Alternity and 2e creatures.

EDIT to add: Dragon Magazine had a series of 3 articles that converted three Alternity aliens to 2nd edition AD&D:

The Sesheyans (Issue #251)
The Fraal (Issue #253)
The T'sa (Issue #257)
Very interesting.
Should I add Alternity as a setting? Alternity was a system so that complicates things. Are these races connected mainly to the Star*Drive setting, at least if we ignore Star Frontiers and d20 Modern?

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Re: How many Published AD&D 2nd Ed Settings?

Post by ripvanwormer » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:36 pm

Havard wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:05 pm


The Sesheyans (Issue #251)
The Fraal (Issue #253)
The T'sa (Issue #257)
Very interesting.
Should I add Alternity as a setting? Alternity was a system so that complicates things. Are these races connected mainly to the Star*Drive setting, at least if we ignore Star Frontiers and d20 Modern?

-Havard
Yes, these races are to Star*Drive as kender, gully dwarves, and gnomes are to Dragonlance, or as tieflings, bariaur, and githzerai are to Planescape. They appeared, in modified form, as cryptids in Dark*Matter, but they're iconic Star*Drive races.

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