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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:10 pm
by Robin

Implied proper laws of Nature on the southern Hills. Creeks give water, water gives plants, lants give animals, anilans give sentient life the ability to live there. The area slowly comes to life. ..but it is a large area , and not allshould be dictated by a single source (aka the dwarves kicked out and a dragon takeover with hobgoblins)...I assume there must more interesting areas in the foothills and mountains to either side.

Any input or ideas are more then welcome

As the idea of a ruined town combined with the battlefield (suggested in the earlier posts here) gave some credit to the battlefields location, I readjusted the region slighly to make a reasonable and logical battlefield location. The creeks, wooded areas and the descending flow patterns together with the trails (some more recent by the Hobgoblins, some old by the dwarves).
One question remains how long ago is this region abandoned by the Dwarves? Was it only Ambur the red Dragon taking over the area, enforcing the Hobgoblins to her aid, kicking out the Dwarves, or was there another reason , (or some internal strugle) making this area abandoned (or too weak to resist the Dragon attacks). This is important for the area's original foodsupport ... -763936216

When looking at the altitudes give in Gaz 12 DM guide page 6; The steppes are 3800 feet high in the west, gradually rising to 4000 feet in the east and south. As Trailmap West Known World says Ethengar is average 1800 feet(set at Bargha i presume) in combination with the information in the Gaz 10 Broken Lands making the Mucks at 300 feet it creates a weird tilt of the whole platform. According Gaz 3 Glantri the region Nortwest is 3800 feet high making the west itself slowly descends enabling the Dol-Anur to flow.
So we get the following readjusted and still canon altitudes;
NW Ethengar; 3800 feet,
N Ethengar; 3900 feet more west to 4100 feet more east
NE Ethengar; 4250 feet high
E Ethengar; 4000 feet high
SE Ethengar; 4100 feet high
S Ethengar; 4000 feet high more east to 350 feet high more west
SW Ethengar; 350 feet high
W Ethengar; 3800 feet high more north and 350 feet high more south
Bargha (west central Ethengar); 1800 feet high ON a Hillock!!
Base World Mountain N; 3500 feet
Base World Mountain E; 3300 feet
Base World Mountain S; 3000 Feet
Base World Mountain W 2800 feet.
Chagon'Nah Depression = flat and undetermined as of yet
Sea of Flowers Depression = flat and undetermined as of yet

Bordering ethengar
South Ethengar
Hills north Rockhome; 4400-4700 feet
Mountains North Rockhome; 5000-6600 feet
West Ethengar
Hills Collossus mountains East Glantri 1000-4000 feet
North Ethengar
Heldan Freehold Hills 4000-4800 feet
Hills 3900- 0 feet (sea level)

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:19 pm
by Robin
Oh yeah :)
I had to work on the Legend I use too, added a Mill and undead symbol, and the basic lines used. :geek: ... -610520076

Maybe I will tidy this up somewhat more somewhere in the near future ;)
at least it is functional :? :P

I think I will have to create a Tomb symbol too. (especially as seen to the dwarves habit to entomb bodies on a individual, family or group based theme)
Maybe differentiate these three into the symbol, making three symbols in a go...have to ponder on this

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:15 pm
by Robin

today made the basic rough version of the earlier smaller section (on top of this map) added all the southeastern regions.
now the detailing, flow patterns etc etc etc will folllow ... -768316108

Question; Chimpman (or was it Sturm :? ) ...You drew a river going Northeast from the mountains (somewhat north of Jardhul to Dhemyeld) in the 2300BC maps Demehvand Province, eventually ending in the later to be known Nordesfjord.
On itself not thus strange as it follows a logical flow towards the sea... However a few hexes north the Krandai flows west into Ethengar on the Plateaux.
I had drawn an earlier 1 mile map resolving the issue of the source of the Krandai River ... -645977491
to make it logical a river circumvents a large part of a continent starting only a few miles from the sea, ending in the Atruaghin Swamp/Darokin...IN the same sea. As such I saw the mountains south would have been the source for many waterflows, yet also the difficulty creating a logical flow.,
As Ethengar is a plateaux tilted Southwest. I assume this was also in 2300BC, however to make both rivers possible, I could only find one solution...; the WHOLE plateaux was lifted tiltwise a 500 to 1500 feet by the 1700BC disaster in the Broken Lands and the volcanic reactivation of the World Mountain, thus breaking up the water source in Demehvand like you created, and caused it to change flow.
As such the Krandai River in 2300BC must have had a source further away from the coast (like you suggested in your map) and this was later changed to geothermal sea water pressured up to make a new source.

or... yoyr river flowing in the fjord must be altered somewhat, and not ending in Njordesfjord, but taking the first valley (the forested hill hexes towards 2300BC Frysghid) ending in the fjord there. and the river now ending in Dhemyeld, would be much smaller, originating in the nearby hills, (only 8 mile at its first bend on the 2300BC map as seen from northyeld)

Which solution would you think is the best. As both will have different geomorphological effects even in 1000AC...hence this difficult question.

as to your 2300bc settlements, which in this region would be ruins, which you think would be gone(devastated, plundered, geologically displaced/destroyed, ) and which will be a part of settlements in this is also important to the 1 mile hex map

hope either one of you or better both able to help in this difficult problem

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:45 am
by Sturm
Yes that river does not go into the sea but it is just born from the Trollheim hills near the sea, see also this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19315&p=209594 and this updated map by Thorf:

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:45 am
by Robin
Sturm wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:45 am
Yes that river does not go into the sea but it is just born from the Trollheim hills near the sea, see also this thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19315&p=209594 and this updated map by Thorf:

Thanx Sturm
In the Thread you mention this particular river is not mentioned, nor can I trace it on Thorf's excellent and useful map
Trying to merge all information canon and then fanon into one single source is hard, and regularly seems to contradict or even be geomorphological impossible. hence this question.
The river I meant on the 2300BC map I colored Yellow here
the light purple line is the 1000AC canon river as on the RC/gaz and boxed set maps.
The purple Line and circle is my earlier 1000AC creation of this particular source, giving it a logical reason to exist there.The circle are the geysers and Krandai Source see this map
The Orange and Red Lines are my 1000AC suggestions as mentionen in the post above; where the Red line river section will "die" after the Plateaux rises in 1700BC. this red line will have several sources (possibly also geothermal, but not as intense as the Krandai will have in 1000AC)
This seems to be the only plausible solution, as far as I can see, while maintining all sources and geomorphology/flow patterns.

24-01-2019 added image

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 pm
by Sturm
Probably Chimpman should reply to this as the 2300 BC map was done by him.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:46 pm
by Robin
Sturm wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:11 pm
Probably Chimpman should reply to this as the 2300 BC map was done by him.
Judging from your response I estimated the map was indeed his making.
I've sent him a PM

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:45 pm
by Chimpman
I don't see too much problem with reconciling the headwaters of the purple river. Geological activity causing geysers is not always stable over time, and I think that the Glacial pressures on the crust at the time (glaciers in the area only started melting circa BC 2500) could have shifted underground caverns causing steam to change paths and come out east of the BC 2300 locations at some point after that. I like having a changing landscape (to some degree, where it makes sense). Anyway, that's another possibility for the purple line.

I'm wondering if glacial pressure could also be the cause of a distorted plateau in that era, causing a bulge in the landscape between the headwaters of the purple line and the yellow line. As the glaciers on either side of the bulge continue to melt perhaps it flattens out to the modern day southwestern tilt? This may act in concert with geothermal pressures moving water around underground in different ways in the different eras.

Let me think a bit on the settlements part of the question. I can probably have something shortly.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:10 pm
by Robin
Geological (cellular Tectonic movements) of Ethengar
Ok ...this did cost me some severe pondering, examining, and diving into a multitude of D&D canon/fanon and Real Life sources (hence I didn't react that fast)

Some of my earlier research on the cellular movement already revealed great things on Ethengar. ... tonic2.png
however, reflecting this to the additional information Chimpman gave above and indeed the backpressure after the glaciers, in combination to the 1700BC disaster and geological reactions of the region

As such I estimate the following data (please do not forget Mystara is a living planet-sized creature with cells instead a planet like earth, with similar but actually different geological processes (ie.- no plate movement but cells see; Megalith2)

accumulation of ice/snow causes a weight induced compression of the cells in Ethengar. This also causes a horizontal break between the upper layers of cells and the creation of a volcanic layer on this break starting from the volcanoes in the Future Broken Lands and the World Mountain.

the thawing of the ice and the build up pressure from above AND volcanic pressure from below cause the area to rise slowly and significantly, becoming a plateaux. probably due the ocean east, there is a break of the bond between the cell in the east and the plateaux cells; this causes this cell to tilt upward to the west and place immense pressure on the east. as such i deem it logical there will be an rim of broken lands or ruptures (canyons or elevation steps) in the hills leading north to south, making sea to/from plateaux travel near to impossible in this era. this would concur with the maps of the 2300BC setting where the social movement seems more northwest along the coast or between mountains and plateaux. As to the Krandai and other river mentioned above, a rim inbetween seems very logical. as it falls almost along the walls of the cells in this area.


The disaster caused geat upheaval in the southwest, creating the broken lands, blocking off the streel river, and this creating an immense lake (which further increases the tilt of the plateaux) and further increased the volcanic activity on the plateaux--it reawakened world mountain. and with this increased the rising of the cells on the plateaux. the continued tilting of the cell in the east together with other volcanic continental effects cause a break on the bridge of oost,separating these cells and innundating the area inbetween with see, thus creating a world more similar to the 1000AC world known. everything after the disaster(s) would slowly become stabile and subject to erosion removing most traces.
The Streel river blocked creates a huge Lake (Aral Lake aka Lake Grondheim) which is filling up all of southwest Ethengar and the Broken Lands region destroying the most fertile area and its forests(see ... overy.html). First somewhere after 500BC there was a as yet (soon to be) undisclosed/undiscovered reason for the Streel River to continue its way uphill through the Broken Lands (see ... overy.html)

the rising of the plateaux slowly comes to a stop. the volcanic activity aka pressure slowly decreases, except on world mountain. this caused the smaller cells around this to continue in a slow rise together with world mountain. the coastal hills will have suffered a lot of erosion and any ruptures existing earlier would be visible only from the linear patterns of the hills. Also has the mountain cells risen in the centuries causing an uplift and relocation of the river mentioned in my post above creating the orange line river and thus the former river bed will be a dead river geologically discernable by biology and sedimentation (as such I will continue the original line as a brown-dead river, with forests along its path.
As being originally higher than the plateaux, the rising of the plateaux has caused most of the eastern hills to the coast become lower than the plateaux. as due the east cell is tilting southwest up, this effect is less within the hills in south vestland.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:59 pm
by Robin
18-10-2018 Implemented the 2300BC fanon source material by Chimpman, and the geological effects as discussed above, also readjusted some heights.
Placed the village ruins of Demhyeld. Placed the Demhyeld dead river (remanants of the former river, mostly only a dead river bed-yet still geological different, and it would bear other plants ( like mandrake, foxtail, etc) due the still increased moisture in the ground. Also placed the original source of the Krandai river, also a dead river bed, ending in a cave going to the former geothermal chamber, now a large Troll Den.

As such I deem this single map almost (if not completly)finished. :geek: :mrgreen: ... -645977491

organised all Ethengar maps in one folder :ugeek: ... a-Ethengar
for easier access

Remember, this is still an ongoing process, and most maps are not complete :shock:
So any fanon material you might know can still be added. Just tell me... ;)

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:10 pm
by Sturm
Lion Castle of module Bsolo was canonically placed in Ethengar, maybe on the Dol Anur river?
Mike here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19403&p=209967&hili ... le#p209967 suggested it could have been built originally by rakasta, which would be interesting as nowadays I think they are mentioned only in Sind, Norwold and maybe some in the Glantrian mountains.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:44 pm
by Robin
Sturm wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:10 pm
Lion Castle of module Bsolo was canonically placed in Ethengar, maybe on the Dol Anur river?
Mike here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19403&p=209967&hili ... le#p209967 suggested it could have been built originally by rakasta, which would be interesting as nowadays I think they are mentioned only in Sind, Norwold and maybe some in the Glantrian mountains.
Oh wow that is indeed interesting. The region of Dol-Anur seems acceptable too, the influence of the mage (in the adventure) would then easily originate from Glantri...As such I feel it fitting mre towardsvthe border of Glantri than deeper into Ethengar, ..or ...the area is seen as flawed, or dangerous to the ethengar, especially due the Lion image....typically this is seen as a symbol of Death (in Real Life the Chinese, Mongol and Japanese all see the lion head as a symbol of death)
I would even deem it plausible the Lion Castle would fit on a Hakomon location (where the Hakomon do not dare to enter the lion image,...
Great source Idea Sturm...
I have to ponder on this

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:11 pm
by Robin
Digging Through Lion Castle as we speak

To discern its canon location I captured this route information, and gained several questions
(Where is this??)
You cross the river by ferry and turn east to walk along the river. The great grassland of the Ethengar Khanate stretches out ahead of you.
(Which River??) It seems the PC's walk and do not use any horses
east along river (this means the river flows from west to east ---making it seem logical to originate from the Collossus Mountains--it also implies this Sarsdell is located very close to the Ethengar Border
Six days pass. You have seen few animals since you left Sarsdell, and you have talked to no one. You turn north away from the riverbank, and begin crossing the flat grasslands.
6 days with a movement rate of 90'-30' (a reasonable speed packed going by foot) gives a total covered distance of 90/5=18 miles per day (as per RC rules) and thus 108 miles in total (=13.5 x 8-mile hexes) if 60'-20' (slow speed possible due high grass) this would become 60/5=12 miles per day and a total of 72 miles (=9 x 8-mile hexes)
first then the PC's move north away from river
seeing on the 8th day a gray mound visible on north horizon
reaching late afternoon on the 9th day lion castle (this means they travelled another 2days making the north direction 2x18=36 miles (=4.5 x 8-mile hexes) or if slowed down 2x12=24 miles (=3 x 8-mile hexes)
as in total Lion castle would be 6 days travelling = 72 to 108 miles (12 to 13.5 x 8-mile hexes)going east along a river flowing east, and then 2 days travelling = 24 to 36 miles (3 to 4.5 x 8-mile hexes)going north.
However, it is also said the BEGIN crossing the flat grassland at this 6th day.; this might assume they were NOT in the grasslands earlier and would be walking (most probably) in hills sloping down towards the visible plains. Then Sarsdell must be located along the Glantrian side of the Dol-Anur-and the PC's travel 6 days in the hills and then go 2 days north

Going east could imply Northeast, east or southeast as a general direction.
Going north could imply Northwest, North, northeast as a general direction
The only eastward river I found is indeed the Dol-Anur, but as the Collossus mountains are in the West of Ethengar, it would deem logical more rivers would exists going east (probably ending in the Dol-Anur)

My suggestions are
1; Sardell lies near Rymskigrad, the PC's travel in the hills going southEAST(Half the given rates (36 to 54 miles =6 to 6.75 x 8 mile hexes and then go 2 days travelling = 24 to 36 miles (3 to 4.5 x 8-mile hexes)going northeast ; placcing Lion Castle in the last Green Grassland hex above the Y of the word Yugatai on the map
2; Sardell lies against the Collossus mountains west of Estoniarsk, the PC's travel first in the Hills along the northern side of an unknown river until it meets the Dol-Anur south of Estoniarsk, then continue their vcoyage along the river, going northeast there placing Lion Castle Northeast of the Namgyal-Oyun Hakomon Location...or north right below the "Y"of Yugatai on the map....This however implies that the Pc's have crossed the Dol-Anur while this is not detailed in the text.
3 Sardell is located along an unknown river against the Collossus Mountains (possible somewhere west of Bramyra), causing the PC's to finally end going NOrtheast away from the river..making the Ajam-Ugul Hakomon location deem best fitting, or anywhere 3 to for hexes northeast away from the dol-anur.(which they must have crossed without this being detailed).

One note; Lion Castle was written before Ethengar and its rivers /map were detailed, hence I allow bending the directional travels as mentioned above to make it at least feasible.
Quotes are directly from the adventure page 6 & 7

In my Opinion Adjam-Ugul seems best fitting; especially as this is translated into "I give up" making it a dominating and fearful location. (making the lion head as symbol of death logical; many give up in the face of death

Any further input is more than welcome on this matter

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:23 pm
by Sturm
Yes I think it could be a good choice. Also options 2 if you want to have multiple locations as the map has a lot of space anyway.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:53 pm
by Robin
Then Adjam-Ugul it will be.
Working on the Northwestern map and placing the excellent Boldavia map of our Micky in the upper corner.
Will release this as soon as soon as that section is done, and the major hex work are placed

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:16 pm
by Morfie
Robin wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:54 pm
made by hand, cutting and pasting in Windows Paint….
Hi Robin,

Not sure if anyone's asked you, but how do you do this?

I am a novice and can't figure how to select a hex shape properly in Windows Paint to be able to cut/copy & paste it..

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 1:02 am
by Robin
Morfie wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:16 pm
Robin wrote:
Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:54 pm
made by hand, cutting and pasting in Windows Paint….
Hi Robin,

Not sure if anyone's asked you, but how do you do this?

I am a novice and can't figure how to select a hex shape properly in Windows Paint to be able to cut/copy & paste it..
Hi Morfie...I was a novice too.
First I use Windows paint
Second I use the standard maps (mostly replica 8 mile hex maps made by our Thorfinn)
Third I grab my Legend from here; ... -610520076 or here and a hex sheet (or use the empty hex group from the legend below right)(free to use by anyone :mrgreen: :halo:
Then the first try and error series until it is right...I enlarge that section (in my work thus very large sections) of the map until 8 hexes of the hexsheet/hex group fit inside one enlarged hex on all three angles...this is tricky and tedious and you must not forget to make the paste object translucent (ie the background color is not pasted with it and you can thus see through the hexsheet/group
if succesful i paste the hex sheet over the whole section, taking care it does fit continously on all edges and sides.
then i use from my legend the 7 hex groups or larger hex groups on the right and copy the area from the larger hex down to the smaller one. this way i get a general copy...depending on the size of your map...this can take a few hundred to several thousand cut and pastes,...
then the hard work, ...filling in more detail and geological variation . the detail is done on canon text, pictures, fanon text and picture, and general feel...the geological , biological en ecological information I have in my head (I have been a teacher in Ecology/biology/physics and my knowledge of geomorphology and is lreasonably to say), together with the canon altitudes (even those beyond the scope of the map) and create flow patterns of water, ssociological behavior patters (ie how creatures traverse the are by environmental barriers andd how this creates; trails, paths, roads, settlements etc (keep the canon information in mind.
then i start to fill in magic and mystery, and way more details....and suddenly I notice I can enter the map in 3d in my mind...see the flaws i made and repair these. with each more detail and less flaws the map and its environment becomes more real for me....complete with sounds and if I am there.
ok..this last bit is a weird effect i discovered during map making and is something for you is to try to see the area where each hex has its own general height...that case you do not have this weird awkward mind effect.
and then you are several thousands to hundred of thousands cut and paste routines further.

If you create a complete new area, you begin with the blank hex sheet, in paint draw thin general lines where which area has to be, the begin as above the cut and past routines.

there are some programms like hexographer who can do a lot of this work, and Thorfinn uses something completely different..but then he is the professional...and I am just the geeky nerdy lady enjoying to push away all my real life frustrations into this map...and hoping, people will like my maps, in an era where people react less and less upon I am mostly oblivious to what people like of my work...sometimes this is frustrating, but hey..that frustration i can use again in another map :P

hope this helps :geek:
and when not just ask. i'll help where i can. maybe i might even make the map for you....if I have the time and I did with the map I made for Giulio Coroletti for his Article on Carytion Mystara for the Threshold Magazine ... -592785351

1 last time...use a soft armrest :lol: , and ergonomic mouse :D , your fingers and wrist will love you then :mrgreen: , and take many breaks in between :o otherwise your mind locks down and you become a bit insane :twisted: ..really take rest where you can(preferably every hour) and then continue :ugeek:
have fun in trying.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:55 pm
by Gecko
I've said it before but I still can't get over that you use MS Paint! both that anyone would use Paint for such an undertaking and that you get such great results using it.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:15 pm
by Robin
Gecko wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:55 pm
I've said it before but I still can't get over that you use MS Paint! both that anyone would use Paint for such an undertaking and that you get such great results using it.
Thanx Gecko ;)
to do that you have to be a bit (or more) out of the box, aka weird, insane :o ...not too much, but just as much that it helps... :shock:
And you have to be very..very stubborn... :ugeek:
I do it often out of RL frustration (RL sucks-sometimes greatly) :? brings me piece and rest, and a weird different mindset. :halo: :geek:

Thanx again for the "great results"...I am always insecure on my work, never fully content, and afraid to finish it, and always want to deepen detail ...etc :|
Those compliments make me happy. so I truly thank you :mrgreen:

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:41 pm
by Robin
NW ... -769569263

This 1 mile hex map is under construction, Yet As I enjoy input from other gamers, I place it here so it can be reviewed.
It will be regularly updated, changed and altered during the process. (which can take several weeks to months)!!.. So downloading can be done, but will not be very useful for either DM or Player.

In this early post of this unfinished map can clearly be seen the method I use in making these maps (as discussed above here)

Ok..begun with the last section of Ethengar. the northwest.
First I brought in the upper Northwest corner, belonging to Boldavia (Glantri) from the excellent map made by our Micky
(see here and here and here
Created more water flow in the NW which would be logical, and thus creating a flow patern, also expanded some rouds, based on socioeconomic migration patterns and geological and biological behavior.
I did remove the forested Mountain Symbol, as this not only deems not logical, but also I had no symbol for
(maybe interesting to know the first hexmapper(s) of Mystara intended to use the mountain and hill symbols to denote the Treeline and growthline as determined by altitude and climate see here and here) as the system was not explained other hexmappers went astray, and the altitude doctrine became lost ... which on itself deemed logical, as hills can also be found lower than between the tree and snowline).
and shaping the Collossus mountains where micky did not reach
detailing will be done later, and maybe some changes will be made to the collossus mountains depending on the fanon material I can lay my hands on
second beginning the major fill-up. the weak grass (yellow) has been done, the good (green)and worse grass (pale yellow) will follow later
and then more detailing, and flaw repair

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:54 am
by Robin
NW ... -769569263
Updated the map with the information gathered from the Di Emanuele Betti maps
later today more will be added

although his work is nice, it is also placed in a horrendous pdf page system without overlay between the pages...truly dreadful to work with.
as Micky's work is older, more detailed (in map and text) and much muxh easier to handle his work takes precedence.
Now fusing these two artists together.

also Worked on the detailing of the map; The Hakomon locations Adjam-Ugul (aka Lion Castle) , Dzulagazalai, Land of the Purple Grass (Nil yagaan öngiin övs gazar), The Gostai Goblin area, this whole region, now slowly becomes alive, the grass waves in the wind, and the goblins have their caves northwest of Gyangyanjiz (which is a very old meteor impact location, having fallen from the northwest, and creating a reasonable crater, , but in the impact also spread important minerals and metals in the southeast, making that area very fertile; hence the horsefair site. The crater has eroded to a point, but something is still within (more on this in the Hakomon topic soon).
I also made the internal ethengar borders in the area having a logical reason why they are where they are, a long river (not wide, nor deep), slithers slowly and easy through the land. the water give reason for some various trees and bushes (not dense but open)which are warped and bend by the wind.

as further I work the more I understand the Ethengar
having eaten in a mongolian restaurant, just to get the feeling and taste
(not a picture of me, but it was similar, and actually not that bad. The meat was tender and soft (bull), very strong spiced, but not hot in taste, and the 'pasta" with carrots was very filling, the warm fullfat milk with honey and cinnamon, was a very nice treat at the end, and enables me a well deserved sleep tonight.
Something to remember.

More detail, and titles of regions tomorrow

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:48 pm
by Robin
Question :?:

The northern section of the Dol-Anur is the actual border of Ethengar and Glantri.
The problem of this question lies within the exact location of this border.
Micky placed this border on the western side of the river, with his Boldavian map) yet also placed some farmland hexes on the ethengar side, suggesting use of this ground, as Ethengerians have no interest or knowledge of farming, these would be sort of 'friendly' invasion/illegal ground use so-to-say.
While Di Emanuele Betti also placed the border along the wesern side, but made the river into a Glantrian conduit with anchor locations near Astoniarsk, Tschernovodsk.
Neither of these options seem to be credible. The Ethengerians would have long plundered, looted any farm on 'their' side of the river as suggested by Micky's maps, making any growth of produce impossible and cattle being taking, causing the land to revert to either unused/clear ground, or some sort of Grazable land (Poor, Meadows, Choice) see my legend.
any vessels as suggested by Betti would be prone to missile (burning) attacks making these anchoring locations and the route itself non-fuctional. also the location of these achor point would deem illogical as there are adequate roads or trails enabling much safer transportation to either destination.
If following Micky's map, the farmland would thus be clear/unused/grazable with some homestead ruins
If following Betti's map the anchor locations would not exist.
Especially as the water improves fertility in the region turning most grassland into choice grazing lands, making them more functional for the Ethengerians and thus they would have camps nearby (as used on Micky's Boldavian map)
As I am trying to merge these maps (as Micky did only have a basic map of this region and Betti's map is more detailed, I need to determine which solution I should apply.
The border of the River could be relocated on the Ethengerian side making the river until its southeastern bend Glantrian Ground (deems logical, as the Ethengars have no interest what-so-all about the river other than crossing it with the intent of plunder or invade Glantri). Any Glantrian homesteads would then be ruins and the ground bewildered. Yet the transport of the vessels would have some more credence than if the river was owned by the Ethengars--it would still be attacked once a while, yet the Ethengar would no longer see each vessel as an invasion into their area.
Would this deem logical to you, or do you have another solution.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:04 pm
by Robin
Btw the extra river created by the fusion of Micky and Betti's maps named Dol-Dobromir or Dobromir River as internal border in Ethengar is not wide, but has cut itself through the land in a single eroded stream 'cut' similar to thisImage.
Traversing these would be possible by fords, or by jumping over it. the width would vary between 6 and 24 feet. for more on jumping (self or by horse see; ... lling.html)

Ethengar is way more Beautiful than anyone would expect

Dol-Anur border

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:38 am
by Gecko
I don't see where Micky's map has an farmland anywhere on the Boldavia section (see his other maps for the symbol he uses for farmland).

Regarding "anchorages" ("Ports" or "Harbors" would be a better translation I believe) and transport- both the Gaz and GKoM in their entries for Rivers talk about use of the Dol-Anur for transport (I envision it by Darokinian guilds on rafts or small boats). Secondarily, perhaps those could also be ports for river fishing boats (river fishing is mentioned in the Gaz's section on Boldavia). Rivers can also be used to float logs from forested areas (ie Boldavia) to non-forested areas where they are processed or needed (ie Estoniarsk) - though I don't know if that last bit is the case here. Is there anything written about Estoniarsk anywhere?

As for the question of is the border being dipicted on the east bank/west bank/or mid-course of the river, I doubt the Ethengarians and Glantrians have a formal demarcation of their border. Glantrian maps probably show it on the East side and Ethengarian maps show it on the Western side, while Darokinian DDC one's show it as mid-river.

Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:30 am
by Sturm
I cannot see the features you are describing in the linked maps either, but I think some things are quite likely:
- The border is on the middle of the river because that's normal everywhere in case of borders, unless there is a very specific reason not to have the borders on it.
- Even if two governments may be often enemies, the people actually living on both sides of the river are likely to trade and meet up to a certain degree, unless government officials are always present to avoid it.
- As we know some Ethengarians escaped to Glantri in the past, likely the other way around happened too. Some Glantrians which did not like the magiocracy probably settled in Ethengar and began farming. The local Khan probably find them useful both as farmers and traders, so I see as quite logical to have many communities of Glantrian expatriates on the eastern side of the river.
- In time of war Glantri will block trade on the river and an hostile Khan may decide to raid river traffic, but after that, business as usual will resume.