1 Mile Hex Mapping

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Sturm
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:14 am

I do not know if there in an answer about the Heldann coast. I think canon sources are not consistent with each others and Geoff just made a choice, but he and Thorf may know more about this. I also noticed the problem in my 24mph map of Brun http://pandius.com/Brun_updated.png and I eventually followed GAZF map mostly but I think I had to stretch a bit the coast in respect to the canon 24 mph maps.

So you are also doing a 1mph map of Vestland too :)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:42 pm

Sturm wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:14 am
I do not know if there in an answer about the Heldann coast. I think canon sources are not consistent with each others and Geoff just made a choice, but he and Thorf may know more about this. I also noticed the problem in my 24mph map of Brun http://pandius.com/Brun_updated.png and I eventually followed GAZF map mostly but I think I had to stretch a bit the coast in respect to the canon 24 mph maps.

Canon sources indeed vary or seem to contradict. Many map sections covering the Heldann region are showing only hills. Only the Trailmap actually reveals more variety. And as this is one of the older canon sources, I deem it (like in biology with nomenclature) as the most correct. I think Geoff found this section on the Trail map too as he made his map, and just filled in the blanks. The other most used Heldann map by JTR seems to follow the other line of canon where only hills are revealed, trying to fit Crown of Ancient Glory within, something Geoff only seems to have done with Laker Erid.
So all in all, both maps seem to contradict on many locations, due the contradicting sources...Hence I requested help, as I can't do it fully alone.

And then the frustrating canon maps of Crown of Ancient Glory, where World mountain seems to be a forest, the hills between Vestland and Ethengar are suddenly grassland, Hexes are incomplete, etc etc. As said before It can best be assumed these maps are locally drawn and do not in scale reveal the truth in distances and shape, maybe they are local maps instead realistic ones.

My intend is to merge all these maps into one...first at least only the southern section of Heldann bordering Ethengar, adding the Crown of Ancient Glory, your 3050BC information, some textual information from Dragonkord chronicles (Heath and high moors, and any other canon and fanon together, and add some more detail where possible (based on German areas/settlements/history I think).

Eitherway I truly hope both Geoff and Thorf will react and are willing and able to help, as this merging and mixing while trying to stay as consistent to canon and fanon as possible is very heavy to do. And I truly need the help where I can.
As the maps progress it is clear to see that the endresult is very useful, tempting and interesting for both DM and PC's.

Sturm wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:14 am
So you are also doing a 1mph map of Vestland too :)
Yes, As my Old Krandai Rivermap had to be redrawn, as all the hexes had shifted, and could no longer be fit in a connecting frame of hexes (ie connecting to other maps), I noticed only a few 8 mile hexes needed to be added to complement the interesting downcascading hills east of Ethengar, and hold all the landmass of Vestland tto. And as my maps are mostly rectangular, they all encompass lots of the neighbouring areas. So I thought why not adding this small section too :P :mrgreen:
The good thing of doing this, it draws me in making that area too...So due the Canolbarth map, the dwarven tunnel, the Ethengar maps, and eventually the Ylaruam maps, a Rockhome map is already in the Planning and will fill in all what has not been covered by the other 1 mile maps thus far, ..thus making the Vestland and Sodefjord accessible for mapping too....and Heldann is set to be done later too, due the Ethengar maps.

My intend is to doo Ylaruam with all canon/and fanon sources of Nithia, Mogreth in one map and finishing the Silver Sierras first after finishing Ethengar.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:35 am

Great Work.
However I would leave Crown of Ancient Glory as the less important source because tipically modules at the time before the Gazetteer were imprecise as authors did not have yet a detailed depiction of the Known World, so I would go with Trail Map as primary source and then fit the module informations in it as it is possible.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:20 pm

Oh..absolute. I do see the Crown of ancient glory more as a map made locally in Vestland, tan a treu regional map...it just adds some information. otherwise it contradicts way to much as describd above

The order in which I normally work are first the largest oldest major canon source of the area chosen.
Enlarge it, hex it to 1 mile hexes, then beginning detailing from the canon text sources (gazeteers, modules, adventures).
Then I use real world geology, geomorphology, flow patters(creatures/water/human(oids), wind, currents) to create a realistic solution for some clear canon flaws or ommissions (like in the Ethengar map the fact the Plateaux is tilted, having a very high North, Northeastern and Eastern side, although near to sea, or having hills (in the canon text going up )...so this is a tricky part, as I must try to remain canon as best possible. the N, NE, E side now for example have become either a short rim of hills going up then down, or directly a set of cascading broken sections of the Plateaux to enable realism fit with the maps.
Following the canon text sources I add details not mapped before, adding ecological/biological effects coming forth under these circumstances.
Then I try to add the fanon sources and at the same time try to add faulty /contradictive canon sources, in the now basic map, trying to fit all this together as a glove... For example the 3050BC and 2300BC had forests on the Ethengar plateaux, these would have left traces and remains, merging these with the canon information, and canon historic timeline I can estimate how much will remain of these traces. Similar as with the Streel/Krandai Rivers. The canon source placed the Krandai origin very close to the ocean...illogical...until I added the geological information of the uplifting plateaux and the volcanic data ogether with the sea...this enabled a boiling chamber of water, replenished with the tides, and boiling the water up through the geysers... So I had to lengthen the Streel river in the Heldann hills, as there must be a source, giving lots of water, which does not proof to be possible only from the short upgoing Heldann hills, so I had to use the nearby Glantrian Mountains and the Red fangs used in the adventure and fanon maps, so I enlarged these fangs a bit to allow some glaciers to exist on all these locations, enabling lots of water to flow.
I then correct details which Ecological/biological/geological/ or by flowpatterns seem to be incomplete, missing or contradicting .
First then I add the varying details of myself to prevent a vast mass of the same in a region. And I try to keep major magical influences important to the map to a bare minimum, first later magic locations and crystal areas are added to spice the area up further.
Only the Streel River in the Broken Lands section has a clear magical solution to the contradicting canon altitudes vs flow patterns. I am currently writing for this, so finally this will soon be fully explained, and its ramifications.


All in all sometimes a maddening, crazy line of thoughts to create these maps...and sometimes I really get confused.
Hence I sometimes need Input from other...in the current case by Thorf and Geoff for the Heldann section and Chimpman for the Hakomon locations...It is am missing several pieces of information. In Heldann what to mix, use, merge, add/remove, in the Hakomon locations...for example how large is the crater of Khampa-Kaikulur-Layhash, what details need to be added to the other locations...As I have great respect for the original creators, I want to stay close as possible to their information too...hence I need their help.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:07 pm

*starts reading thread*
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:17 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:07 pm
*starts reading thread*
Great. :lol: I eagerly await your first thoughts on my issues.
Thanx ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:28 pm

Ok
The main problem lies in the Canon boring hills only, and the map of Geoff and JTR which vary greatly, yet also trying to stay consistent with the Canon trailmap which Geoff did best, and the Crown of ancient glory which JTR placed best.
Ethengar North is thus far like this
Image
Ethengar North like this with the latest inclusions of the Heldann Hills above the Rd Fangs.; https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -780327662
And Ethengar NE like this
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -782037337

The map of Geoff and JTR show clear differences
Image
The lines are the borders as in Geof's map (green =forest, brown=mountain, lightgreen=grass, orange=hills)
I placed the Sudbergen of Geoff in the bare hills of JTR
The Sudbergen of Geoff seem to merge with the west Red Fang, ...where hex C is the actual Fang. (both fangs are red circled)
Geologically these mountains are a perfect source for the eastern branch of the Streel, as the Fangs are rather small (8 miles roughly)
Lake Erid Seems to be best placed on JTR's map, yet this seems to contradict somewhat with Geof's forest and the canon Crown of Ancient Glory map (even if this is only sparse information) The Blue circle is where Geoff placed Lake Erid.
Looking at the Ethengar hexes and the hexes in the CoAG map the fangs of JTR seem to be placed correctly,yet do not inducate size (one 8 mile hex is used), like the CoAG map.
Thus far the details which confuse me

Then we have the NE section of Ethengar with the Heldann Region of Grunturm. These are totally different although Geoff's map seems to follow canon more.
That is another discussion point
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:07 am

Ethengar NW & SW
Ok while waiting for the much needed help in the NE, and Hakomon I go back to the Northwest map, and continue working on the map there...I can't do nothing while waiting ;) .
08-02-2019; Shifted the whole map, added more material in the north to enable the Streel source to be explained
Used Micky's map as a main source as this was the oldest most correct source . , and Betti's maps where Micky was missing as I did before
Added a old glacier in the Mountains west as Streel Source, without altering too much on Betti's map.
The Glacier is clamped between the mountains, and yearly new snow is added, making this a near infinite source, many streams from the Glacier combine together through creeks, lakes, streams into minor rivers combining into the western entry into the Streel River.
Image
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -769569263

08-02-2019; Added removed map section of the NW map to this map, making it much larger, fixed flaws in overlap with the NW, N, S maps, enabled some extra space on the south to later place sections from the Canolbarth map...so eventually no area in between remains unmapped
Image
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -765746310
Slowly one gigantic map becomes clear...and usable
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:37 pm

Ethengar NW

Today a boring tedious day.
Filling in Beti's work and infusing it with the section of Micky's older work.
That is not only cut&pasting each individual hex on the right spot, also correcting overlap issues to Micky's map and maintaining flow patterns (Betti made some serious flaws in this)
Also infused the Glacier which is the western source of the Streel River
addded some of the known Heldann information
Eisenturm is a castle as per Dragonlord tale, and hence it is over 500 years old
The nearby village is almost a town, maybe i will change this to a town hex later, otherwise I will add a note in the descriptions later.
Hope you like it....
Monday I continue...it is no just past 24;00 so I go out and party the night.
Tomrrow I am a zombie

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Have fun

and as before any additional information is welcome, also flaws or anything else.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:35 pm

Ethengar NW

12-02-2019; While I got the Flue I stayed home, yet could not do nothing, and as I promised yáll the next step today... so worked with a throbbing headache, ripped lungs from coughing and sweating all over(yech) and muscle pain as if i have done a quituplon. ;( :o :?
Image

Ok...sickness beside...I have now placed most of Bettis material, adjusted to fitting the Micky Maps, removed/readjusted several important Flowpattern flaws of Betti. Slowly more detail is added and the map begins to come alive.
I am a bit anxious on the placing of altitudes later on, as this will be a crime to my mind...hundreds of valleys between alternating mountains and hooks and bends. AAAARGHHH!!! :evil:

Image
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -769569263
The northern area seems to be a wild wild wilderness, without human/demihuman settlements, so as Betti did not place monster/dragon lairs or any infrastructure and such, I need to do this.

Does anybody know which humanoids are located in this region (NE Glantri-3 volcanoes...from Dragon Lord chronicles I know several petty dragon kingdoms, and a few ogre clans, and at least 1 Storm/Cloud Giant but this data is of 500BC.
I suspect some ogres and dragons might be living there in 'relative'peace and ease, and I suspect Fire giants and red Dragons near the three volcanoes (I have only the corner of the most southern on my map) and maybe frost giant in the nearby glacier being the western source of the Streel River


So More detailing will be needed in the area. I have named the large green Valley; La Valée oubliée Secrète = The Forgotten Secret Valley
Would be nice to have at least a foothold of interesting historic stuff located there.

Any input and ideas are more than welcome. :lol: :lol: :lol: ;) ;) ;) :geek: :ugeek:

More in the upcoming days/weeks...as I am a wee bit slower now grmble :halo: :? :oops:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Doc Chaos » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:54 pm

Aren't there vampires plauging NW Ethenger?

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:01 pm

Doc Chaos wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:54 pm
Aren't there vampires plauging NW Ethenger?
Not that I was aware off.
Could be logical with nearby Boldavia and its undead there.
I will ponder on the Idea, maybe these have settled somewhere in the mountains , a sort of vampire/nosferat enclave...not a bad idea...thanx
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Zendrolion » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:14 pm

Robin wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:35 pm
Does anybody know which humanoids are located in this region (NE Glantri-3 volcanoes...from Dragon Lord chronicles I know several petty dragon kingdoms, and a few ogre clans, and at least 1 Storm/Cloud Giant but this data is of 500BC.
I suspect some ogres and dragons might be living there in 'relative'peace and ease, and I suspect Fire giants and red Dragons near the three volcanoes (I have only the corner of the most southern on my map) and maybe frost giant in the nearby glacier being the western source of the Streel River
I'm late here, but Dungeon Magazine #12 adventure "At the Spottle Parlor" has some interesting locations to add to the larger Wendarian Ranges area. Spottle Parlor itself is the residence of a legendary, albeit retired, Glantrian thief, named Bradbert Niss. The adventure mentions a "lizardman military unit" patrolling the area, and a hobgoblin tribe recently settled there, whose king, Lord Guzz, shows up during the adventure. Lord Guzz is searching for more slaves to work in the coal mines he controls; this could mean he is using the coal for some purpose (an infernal war machine?) or he has trade agreements with unscrupulous dealers in Wendar, Heldann or Glantri. Hope this may help, Robin. ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:25 pm

Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:14 pm
Robin wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:35 pm
Does anybody know which humanoids are located in this region (NE Glantri-3 volcanoes...from Dragon Lord chronicles I know several petty dragon kingdoms, and a few ogre clans, and at least 1 Storm/Cloud Giant but this data is of 500BC.
I suspect some ogres and dragons might be living there in 'relative'peace and ease, and I suspect Fire giants and red Dragons near the three volcanoes (I have only the corner of the most southern on my map) and maybe frost giant in the nearby glacier being the western source of the Streel River
I'm late here, but Dungeon Magazine #12 adventure "At the Spottle Parlor" has some interesting locations to add to the larger Wendarian Ranges area. Spottle Parlor itself is the residence of a legendary, albeit retired, Glantrian thief, named Bradbert Niss. The adventure mentions a "lizardman military unit" patrolling the area, and a hobgoblin tribe recently settled there, whose king, Lord Guzz, shows up during the adventure. Lord Guzz is searching for more slaves to work in the coal mines he controls; this could mean he is using the coal for some purpose (an infernal war machine?) or he has trade agreements with unscrupulous dealers in Wendar, Heldann or Glantri. Hope this may help, Robin. ;)
Beter Late than never ;P
I will absolutly check Dungeon Mag 12. :ugeek:
This is great information. and absolutely useful. :mrgreen:
There are several Coal mines in the region (as per Micky & Betti's sources) amongst many gold, crystals, silver, iron and gems. :geek:
So these will have its personal effects, which I have to implement later (infrastructure, defence, settlements, etc).

hmmm. Lord Guzz his warmachine....could be an old Blackmoor engine (steam/coal driven) which remained in the region and was hidden until the 1700BC disaster and reawakening of the volcanoes on and around the Ethengar Plateaux.

Very Useful Thanx Zendrolion

This is information I truly enjoy. :lol:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 pm

Ethengar NW
Thanx again Zendrolion :mrgreen:
Checked Dungeon Magazine 12.
Found some obscurities (a cleric preaching AND a Dwarf on Glantrian soil without being hunted, deems a bit unrealistic( and clearly identifies the writer of the adventure has only brielfly read the then new Gazetteer 3 Principlalties of Glantri. Not many knew then the effects of such a social political conflict described in the gazetteer.)
Bufred Shabbin, 5th Dwarf
Vansin Vanslep, 2nd lvl Cleric (who desires to build a shrine in the Wendarian Mountains)

I also found a new Game see; http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtop ... 93#p226993 which needed to be shared here and addd to Havard's list.

Other NPC's
Lord Guzz Hobgoblin King with Thouls This one must have a location for his tribe nearby.
Gergy d'Ambreville (Micky will hate this when he finds out...another canon d'Ambreville to add to his list of the Family, as if there were not enough already)4+1 HD=17hp (in both forms apparently) 14year old lazy/stupid child /wereboar. (This was clearly created before PC4 Nighthowlers, otherwise this would be variable--human 1 HD Board 4+1 HD advised)
Skhad Patrolling Lizardmen Military Unit ....Clearly indicating there must be an lizardmen tribe active in the same valley (due the mostly cold environment in the Wendarian Range I deem these would only be active on the surface in warm summer/autumn days(not nights) and not very far from their caves, hunting for food or enemies(the ogres I mentioned above as per Dragonlord Chronicles??), and otherwise living underground in the hot moist volcanic chambers there---similar to the Broken Lands)
Bradbert Niss T12 experienced Old man, banished to this region by Glantrian Court due interactions with Jherek Virayana as being saved by Niss from Darokin bandit gang....This clearly indicated a hidden mountain Lair for Niss

So I have several new locations ;
1 A hobgoblin location (probably a prmitive village nearby cave entrances,
2 A Hidden mountain Lair for Niss
3 A secret Lizardmen cult/group of significant numbers---as they are able to send military patrolls and not being interested in lost members
4 If the cleric survived (and this seems so in the adventure) an new secret hidden Shrine to his faith (as he uses a silver holy symbol, it deems me a Shrine to Asterius,maybe another but ---I have to check if other immortals use silver Holy symbols)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:39 am

This would fit with the Wendarian range being actually controlled by Amanth, as detailed in Who's Who Among Dragons by Bruce Heard http://pandius.com/whoswho.html. The lizardmen and the hobgoblins could well be in her service.
Probably the Glantrian Princes officially ignore the range but unofficially they know Amanth is there and have no interest in going to a full scale war with her, so they claim the range in front of other KW nations but they do really know who the real ruler of the region is.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:57 pm

Sturm wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:39 am
This would fit with the Wendarian range being actually controlled by Amanth, as detailed in Who's Who Among Dragons by Bruce Heard http://pandius.com/whoswho.html. The lizardmen and the hobgoblins could well be in her service.
Probably the Glantrian Princes officially ignore the range but unofficially they know Amanth is there and have no interest in going to a full scale war with her, so they claim the range in front of other KW nations but they do really know who the real ruler of the region is.
This would have been great, however as Bruce Heards article in Dragon 170 places its lair /kingdom further west
Image https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -516451491
I have placed Bruce's canon lairs in this map, added other known canon maps and estimated several lesser dragon kingdoms (purple rectangles) mostly these are part of the Dragon Pyramid of power of the larger dragons.
After checking the canon sources according to Dragonlord Chronicles there has been a Dragon kingdom of a Red dragon here located at the volcanoes, this was 500BC, however, 2nd generation offspring might still live on/around this volcano, and maybe one has the guts/power/incentive to become a treu Dragon power in the region. eitherway I assume more a green dragon (small to medium sized at best) in the wooded valley, and several small whites and/or reds(maybe 1 or 2 medium sized) near the volcanoes and glacier in the east. These are not listed on the given map as hese dragons are too small for a real dragon kingdom.
I also think these dragons would migrate/hunt more north or local than south due the higher rates of (demi)human(oids) there for gold/magic and prey for food
The Idea that glantri ignores the region out of political disinterest seems plausible,yet a real reason seems to be missing, as the Amantyr region is more west. I imagine The medium Green dragon in the wooded valley, being a lower step in the Pyramid of power of Amanthyr though, so even though its own kingdom is much smaller, his political/dragonpower reaches much further. So your idea is not discarded , just a bit tweaked ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:47 pm

Ethengar NW
Slowly feeling better (or better said I removed the tap from my nose), and the barking turned to coughing, and i don't need to shower every hour) so have worked on the map the last days.
Ok worked on the detaling, started naming the creeks and other water sources, added several more, filled in some gaps, placed villages/towers etc.
Continue doing this later this week.
I also added the information from the Dungeon adventure and flowing out from that.(see the upper right corner the green valley)
Image
To see in more detail https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -769569263 use to the dowload button right to see in normal form

Tonight gaming ...at last. :ugeek: :twisted: :halo:
Hopefully tomorrow healthy enough to go out again :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
Image

As before any additions, comments, noted flaws/mistakes, or suggestions are more than welcome.
I truly thank those who did already...without them the map would not be thus complete.
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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:29 pm

As I am working on the Heldann Hills I created the following text to the region, to be shared here to give you all a feel of the area;

The Heldann Heath Hills
The southern part of Heldann is located against the Plateaux of Ethengar. As this Plateaux has risen in the last millennia, so did it uplift the region fixed to it. This is how the Hills came to be. As the Plateaux arose, ruptures were created as the Heldann ground did not rose as fast, other sections simply broke away from the Plateaux and fell back. Thus the tiered levels of the Hills came to be, and the many canyons, and walls of stone. As the Plateaux of Ethengar is still rising, albeit much slower, sections might still break, and seem to collapse within themselves, creating broken lands or lower placed hills. The latest known greater collapse was the Seaview Plateaux (or as the Ethengerians call it ‘Dalain kharakh taviuruud’--= the corner of Ethengar poking in between Vestland and the Heldann border on the maps) which broke of with the major eruption occurred on 14 Fyrmont 966 AC of World Mountain, where this section collapsed and sank 415 feet below the 3990 feet edge of the plateaux. Regularly sections might collapse, or have falling stones during tremors or eruptions.
Image
The whole area, including the Plateaux was originally located 3000 feet lower in the early centuries before the Great Rain of Fire. And many rivers from the Wendarian Range and the Mengul Mountains made the area very fertile. As the plateau rose, pulling he hills up with it, this changed. Plants died, water became trapped on the sections or flushed away. Nature did its best, and peat marshes arose where water congregated. These peat marshes were actually a major contributor to the change of the region. The water became less oxynated, and seemed dead. The peat slowly died, sank to the bottom, and this process repeated century after century until the peat pushed itself up, and created a moist elevated peat marsh. With the eruptions, many of these locations were often broken open, and water fled away. On the peat, Heath started to grow, and resistant to drought and difficult terrain it spread out to the areas beside the peat marshes.
Image
Typically one does see a marshland with a raised centre, and some ponds. Small creeks allow water to flow away. Around these a small range of flat heath is seen, growing on the edge of the peat marsh. Beyond that the heath spread out to the hills, within these heath, light Juniper ‘forests’ arose, or more sturdy birch and pine mixtures. The typical pink and purple flowers of the many variant heath plants give the area a real pleasant scent and changing color, lasting from early Thaumont to halfway Kaldmont.
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As Heath is a low growing plant, (only up to 3 feet, mostly even less) the area can be scoured afar, and approaching grazers, and travellers can be seen clearly. In the Southwest(south and north of the west birth branch of the Streel River) the area iss also dotted with Red Spire rock formations, prominently visible from afar.
The area is often clogged in mists and fog on any warm day reducing visibility to 200’. Within this fog things happen which the common folk do no understand. Witches scour these areas for herbs and spices, ‘witte wiev’n’ (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witte_Wieven ) and banshees roam the fields of heath.
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Kobolds have due their low size a great opportunity to survive and hunt in this region. So travellers beware, these kobolds dress in brown green and purple, and the waving tendrils of fog might be more dangerous than expected. The ladies encountered here might have interest in boiling your brain and divulging on your flesh and bones. There are two Hill Giants prominently active in the region named Ellert and Brammert (based on Dutch folktale, so use translate; https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellert_en_Brammert).
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Other dangerous critters known to be found here are; Wychlamps, Lesser Phantoms, Robberflies, Stirges, Wychglow, Rockmen & Geonids, Several Rophyr in the ruins of bygone past, and at least one Neh-Thallgu summoned here by above mentioned witches or warlocks.
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Normal creatures are the many birdtypes, wild cats, wolves, cougar, Fallow Deer, large herds of common sheep or smaller goat herds, and the rarer 1d10 cattle (often owned by local humans or kobolds), common frogs and small lizards (in summer only, as the cold restricts these), and many butterflies and other insects, make this region alive and moving.

Many of the locals living outside the villages(due whatever reasons--often poverty) live in 'Plaggenhutten'https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch& ... 47&dpr=1.1 mostly partially dug in the ground, a wooden triangular front(and sometimes back) and the roof covered with staked-out pieces of Heathroots (Plag singular, Plaggen multiples) to prevent rain.These people are often friendly although afraid. most of these houses have 3 generation family members living together having a surviving total of 8 to 12 inhabitants. Nearby similar structures could have housed a cow(yes only one), 2d3 sheep or goats and 1d12 chicken. The average monthly income of the poor yet proud hard working people is 15cp a week, by selling cut heath or peat as fuel and local herbs as components. They are not allowed too hunt or own weapons(other than their tools) by the Heldann Knights. Poaching is done regularly, but harshly punished, foreigners don't understand this, yet it is a way for the Knights to enforce total control.

The villages in these regions are small, yet have clay bricks or wooden walls, and a thick reet roof covering, Streets are narrow and bend, and wagons are thus mostly only seen on the outskirts of thee settlements. This is also the local market (1 to 3 times a week were locals and nearby locals(living outside the settlement sell their stuff. The settlement does rely on primitive fences and cornering against rock walls or lakes. Superstition is prominent, yet when proven safe, these people are friendly to most foreigeners(especially those bringing income/trade). They all dress in clothing colored blue (by peat inks) where men dress darker and women lighter. Men carry dark cloth caps, women white embroided caps, both genders wear wooden clog shoes (as these prove best resisting the shovels&spades in their daily work and are cheap to make. Villagers earn an average of 12Sp week as honey, wool, butter, chease, milk, and wood are used, made into food or clothing. Regular parties (often monthly at grouped together birthdates of prominent locals) strengthen the cogherence of the populace.
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Be aware for Heldann Knights, these religious zealots run a campaign of control and terror in the name of the Immortal Vanya, girder on of weapons. As careful yet friendly the local populace might seem to be, so direct, negative, interrogative or even brutal these knights might be. They do enforce 'their' right to rule even to foreigners, and many have lost their possessions, freedom or worse in attempting to resist them.
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As described the area is often fogbound with a vague sometimes thick fog. In winter it is cold, mostly snowcovered, and freezing(don't walk on peat ice--underneath it is warm and thus ice can't be trusted) in summer the region isd temperate, regularly inundated in rain from the eastern sea, and bouncing onto the western mountains. The chance of rain(or snow in winter) is 25% daily (1d10; 1 -2 drizzle, 2-4 Light Rain, 5-8 Heavy Rain, 9-10 Thunderstorm) lasting 1d12!! hours each. reroll again 1 hour after rain stopped, it often repeats. Thunderstorms might invoke heavy Hail, needing some protection(Helmet, roof, cave, trees/bushes)or suffer 1d3 damage/hour and material damage to armor, pottery, rooftiles, etc. Wind is as onland as anywhere else , but offland rarely higher than strength 4.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:48 pm

Robin wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:47 pm
To Geoff I have this Question; The Sudbergen on your map, is this canon-sourced or your own input?. Because I do like the section, and especially when it is canon(although I would like to have the source then ;) ) I would need to implement it, otherwise I intend to merge your map (in the sections I have) with that of JTR's map. Then the Spires from Crown of Ancient Glory would be a seperate section of the Sudbergen.
The Sudbergen were entirely my own creation, but there is some basis for them in canon - check the two mountain hexes on the southern Heldann border with Ethengar. Given the overall lay of the land I thought a small stand of forest made sense - I envisioned a secluded valley nestled amongst taller hills, shielded by the peaks.
The problem with the Crown of Ancient Glory maps is these are overly simple, incomplete(not all hexes are filled), and has a great varied coastline, It can best be assumed these maps are locally drawn and do not in scale reveal the truth in distances and shape. Also it implies a forest?? where world mountain is...amongst others...at least if these cloud of globes are trees... :?

I was aware of that map, but disregarded it when making my own because my own approach is to favour later maps if there is more detail offered by the latter.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:54 pm

Robin wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:42 pm
Sturm wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:14 am
I do not know if there in an answer about the Heldann coast. I think canon sources are not consistent with each others and Geoff just made a choice, but he and Thorf may know more about this. I also noticed the problem in my 24mph map of Brun http://pandius.com/Brun_updated.png and I eventually followed GAZF map mostly but I think I had to stretch a bit the coast in respect to the canon 24 mph maps.
Canon sources indeed vary or seem to contradict. Many map sections covering the Heldann region are showing only hills. Only the Trailmap actually reveals more variety. And as this is one of the older canon sources, I deem it (like in biology with nomenclature) as the most correct. I think Geoff found this section on the Trail map too as he made his map, and just filled in the blanks. The other most used Heldann map by JTR seems to follow the other line of canon where only hills are revealed, trying to fit Crown of Ancient Glory within, something Geoff only seems to have done with Laker Erid.
I did in fact base my map on what was in the Trail Map, and extrapolated from larger-scale maps (I did consult the map in Saga of the Shadow Lord as well). As for the more contentious choice over the shape of the Kamminer Bucht, I ran into discrepancies in official maps and made my own choice.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Feb 18, 2019 7:57 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:48 pm
Robin wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:47 pm
To Geoff I have this Question; The Sudbergen on your map, is this canon-sourced or your own input?. Because I do like the section, and especially when it is canon(although I would like to have the source then ;) ) I would need to implement it, otherwise I intend to merge your map (in the sections I have) with that of JTR's map. Then the Spires from Crown of Ancient Glory would be a seperate section of the Sudbergen.
The Sudbergen were entirely my own creation, but there is some basis for them in canon - check the two mountain hexes on the southern Heldann border with Ethengar. Given the overall lay of the land I thought a small stand of forest made sense - I envisioned a secluded valley nestled amongst taller hills, shielded by the peaks.
The problem with the Crown of Ancient Glory maps is these are overly simple, incomplete(not all hexes are filled), and has a great varied coastline, It can best be assumed these maps are locally drawn and do not in scale reveal the truth in distances and shape. Also it implies a forest?? where world mountain is...amongst others...at least if these cloud of globes are trees... :?

I was aware of that map, but disregarded it when making my own because my own approach is to favour later maps if there is more detail offered by the latter.
Great input Geoff ;)
Ok...Thanx
Than the eastern section could best follow your (aka the trailmap), as this is more canon. Although I totally agree the canon conflicting information on this area. I feel to me the Trailmap (see image here)seemed also better than the other canon sources, as the dominant map source and lowest scale of the region. Ok I can start working on that section. Thanx
Image

As to the section with the Spires
This gives enough reason to indeed implement your Sudbergen, yet then would the Eastern spire (in your opinion) be a part of this mountainous area, or more seperate? As far as I saw your map, you might see here in the overlap of both your and JTR's map. Here I imposed your variant hexes on JTR's map. Not much differences in this region.
Image
The western spire then would seem to be block C of the Sudbergen. Would you then remove the D hex of these mountains so the West Spitre could in fact be the southern end of this range? or would you enwrap the spire in the mountainchain (probably leaving the spire itselff as the dominant peak), or would you relocate the spire or the total sudbergen to make it be D-hex? Eitherway , it would make a Glacier (albeit smaller than in the Wendarian Range) logical, and hence the secondary source of the Streel River.
So what's your take on this? Which option would you choose?
We have thus 5 options;
1 Sudbergen C-hex is spire without D-hex as mountain, placing the spire as the southern end of the mountainchain, as you created it
2 C-hex is spire with D-hex and full part of the Sudbergen with mountainous area of D-hex southeast of the spire, requiring some remapping of the area in between.
3 shift either the whole Sudbergen 1 hex NW,
4 or shift the west spire 1 hex southeast.
5 Use the locations as in the "Crown" maps and without the Sudbergen
I my opinion option 1 and 3 seem very good, option 2 would close the gap between the Spires for a great part, and hence discredit the "Crown" maps., option 4 would do the same. Option 5 would make the area very boooring (IMHO) and a vast hill only area.
I do like your idea of a secluded forestvalley in between, and my research of the geology reveals the cliffs created by the local collapse, and creation of the Heldann Hills, would merit this. Thse cliffs follow along the Spires. As you see the westspire would be the C-hex and keep the D-hex also as mountainous terrain, then I need to remap this secion somewhat. If not, this would make the West Spire more prominent, and together with the east spire a "real doorway " to the Lake Erid as in the Crown of Ancient Glory map. The small blue circle is where you had placed Lake Erid, the blue filled area is where it is as per JTR and the Crown maps. It feels to me the pool seems better placed as by JTR, yet then clutched against the forest you created along the eastern side of the Sudbergen.

So This is the main issue I need your help with. :o
This is thusfar I got
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -780327662
Last edited by Robin on Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:04 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:54 pm
Robin wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:42 pm
Sturm wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:14 am
I do not know if there in an answer about the Heldann coast. I think canon sources are not consistent with each others and Geoff just made a choice, but he and Thorf may know more about this. I also noticed the problem in my 24mph map of Brun http://pandius.com/Brun_updated.png and I eventually followed GAZF map mostly but I think I had to stretch a bit the coast in respect to the canon 24 mph maps.
Canon sources indeed vary or seem to contradict. Many map sections covering the Heldann region are showing only hills. Only the Trailmap actually reveals more variety. And as this is one of the older canon sources, I deem it (like in biology with nomenclature) as the most correct. I think Geoff found this section on the Trail map too as he made his map, and just filled in the blanks. The other most used Heldann map by JTR seems to follow the other line of canon where only hills are revealed, trying to fit Crown of Ancient Glory within, something Geoff only seems to have done with Laker Erid.
I did in fact base my map on what was in the Trail Map, and extrapolated from larger-scale maps (I did consult the map in Saga of the Shadow Lord as well). As for the more contentious choice over the shape of the Kamminer Bucht, I ran into discrepancies in official maps and made my own choice.
The Kamminer Bucht is indeed a contradiction of various canon sources and a major headache :evil: . Yet as I described just above, based on your advise, I now intend to follow Trailmap (and thus also your map) on this corner. You have helped me greatly in this. :lol:
I had not thought of the "Saga Map". As I look on it, indeed this is the oldest source where these spires are noted (even before "Crown of...") and the text blocks the section where you have created the Sudbergen, so there is actually nothing contradicting it...IMHO :halo: :twisted:
Awaiting Your answer eagerly... :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Feb 18, 2019 11:53 pm

As I haven't been doing nothing while eagerly awaiting the much welcomed above help, here the NW section with the Heldann region more detailed.

Ethengar NW, Glantri E, NE, & Heldann SW
Image
The last two days I added more detail river/creek names (from Both Bettis and Micky's source material), added altitudes of mountains and passes, Mines, Crystals, and much more detail on the Heldann region. See thiss post
There is a large sandy region where browncoal, turf and Heath 'mining' destroyed the delicate balance of the area, and it died out. Although it might regrow in a few decades, it is a barren region till then. Only designatd workers are allowed now to 'mine' there.
There are micro settlements (these are the Plaggenhuts mentioned in the post. Near the ethengar Region there are a few settlements abandoned due Ethengar Raids. Due this the Heldann Knight have set up a spionager (Heldann-aka german for spy camp) with fire inside a nearby cave(so the Ethies can't see any smoke, but signals can rapidly be sent to Castle Eisenturm. Another rule implemented by the Heldann Knighs is that it is illegal to venture in this region. This caused the small settlements to become abandoned.
Only a few survived thus far, by either abandoning all contact and remain hidden, or by having contact with either Ethengerians or Glantrians secretly or in the open, while remaining hidden in Heldann.Some might be mages(and in the Eyes of Locals due the persecution actions of the Heldann Knight thus dangerous) or even Witches.
Keep in mind that Plaggehuts are mare from local heath (often alive) and thus nearly invisible to the untrained eye from more than a hundred yards or so.
Image
And Yes these rickety housings build of some wood, trees, boards turf and Plaggen of Heath, were populated legally in the Netherlands and Germany until 1978, and some might still (illegally) be hidden in the woods and upon discovery by the state are forcefully abandoned and destroyed. Thus they are better in keeping these hidden, even forest keper are sometimes astounded when one is discovered after several years, as they often walked by without noticing. These housing were(and still are) used by the most poor an/or non-social adaptive people. This would be similar in Heldann.

For detailed view of the map see here and use download button righthttps://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -769569263

I am certain that with Geoff's great Help the North of Ethengar and Northeast will result in similar detailed regions. :mrgreen: :lol:
I hope you are content with these. :?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Thorf » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:53 am

Hi Robin.

Apologies for not chiming in sooner. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to contribute at the moment. Heldann is a complete mess with just the official sources, and that situation has spawned a number of attempts to solve this in the community over the years. As you've found, they often contradict each other.

For these and other reasons, I have yet to release my own version of Heldann at all yet. I do have a work in progress, but there are still a number of questions hanging over it, preventing its release.

However, my latest project following the publishing order of the maps has been yielding solutions to all of these problems. It's still in progress, but I'm very hopeful that it will provide the best possible solution to most of these problems, bringing most of the official maps together without disregarding anything (much).

The most important thing about this really is that the Companion Brun continental map can be taken as the master view of the continent, to which everything else can be fitted. This is what brings about continuity like we've never had it before, albeit with some caveats.

I should add, though, that I'm still working on 1985, so I have yet to explore how this model fits with later sources, including all those fragments of Heldann.

Sorry I can't be more help at the moment.

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