1 Mile Hex Mapping

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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:11 am

Thorf wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:53 am
Hi Robin.

Apologies for not chiming in sooner. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot to contribute at the moment. Heldann is a complete mess with just the official sources, and that situation has spawned a number of attempts to solve this in the community over the years. As you've found, they often contradict each other.

For these and other reasons, I have yet to release my own version of Heldann at all yet. I do have a work in progress, but there are still a number of questions hanging over it, preventing its release.

However, my latest project following the publishing order of the maps has been yielding solutions to all of these problems. It's still in progress, but I'm very hopeful that it will provide the best possible solution to most of these problems, bringing most of the official maps together without disregarding anything (much).

The most important thing about this really is that the Companion Brun continental map can be taken as the master view of the continent, to which everything else can be fitted. This is what brings about continuity like we've never had it before, albeit with some caveats.

I should add, though, that I'm still working on 1985, so I have yet to explore how this model fits with later sources, including all those fragments of Heldann.

Sorry I can't be more help at the moment.
Ah Great :lol: ...The mapmaster himself. Thanx for chiming in..better late than never ;)

Following the Oldest sources you say :geek: ...Hmmm I tried to do this already, yet even then the conflicts are major. So following what you said and what I suggested to Geoff seems to be right...as X box has the oldest source where the spires are visible...(and the "Heldann Freeholds" label might cover the Sudbergen he created).
I do agree that following the order of things will bring clarity (one way or another). The problem however I see in the X1 map, is the size of the hexes (24 miles), and lack of detail, the Kamminer Bucht for example can almost not be detailed. It does clearly depict the presence of the spires So I can asume these are larger than a mere 8 miles.but without Geoff addition of Sudbergen of course.
In your replica of X11 You have made the land near Kamminer Bucht brown like Hexes, yet did not use a true hex symbol...In the X1 Replica these hexes are green. Being the oldest source in 8 miles; the trail map west, where these brown areas are now green as in X1. As you say it Would be best to follow that, as it is the first source detailing this region?
You have done a Replica map of TM2 where this is clearly revealed, yet the spires are totally obscured. How would you go on with the Spires, following my suggestions to Geoff (see Post, we have a few options in using or not using his Sudbergen..
I greatly respect your input in this. :mrgreen: :ugeek:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:22 pm

Ethengar NE, HeldannSE, Vestland N
Ok Worked on the Ethengar NE map and finished the flawed hexes of the Krandai river map (which thus will be made over with the help of this map :P ). The last days I implemented the Information gained by the information Geoff Gander and Thorfinn Tait on this region (I truly hope their help will be as bountiful as this location). I created several settlements, infrastructure for the Vestland region and Heldann region in the native tongue(Real World Norwegian and German Respectively) all based on the Trail Map, Crown ofvAncient Glory map, movement patters vs geology and flowpatterns, Then I implemented the Heath/Moor tiers between Heldann and Ethengar as I explained earlier. I added Light houses (mostly simple pyres or stone towers with a pyre on top) due the seafahring background of the Vestlanders.
The map in 1 mile hexes
Image
Seems now reasonably well fitting the 8 mile hex map of the same region
Image
See here in detail (use green button right for download and view in real size)
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -782037337

Hope you are content with it :? . Some minor additions and changes will be further applied to the Heldann and Vestland Section, before I continue with the Ethengar section. I still have to bring more detail there(especially Vestland and ethengar itself), implement the 3050BC, 2300BC and 1700BC information I gained (and still am researching)on this region.
Any input of any of you is very very welcome. Please inform me with anything you have.

To Thorf and Geoff Would this to your opinion befit the region(and hence the map) best? or would you suggest other solutions/changes/additions??
The area norrmally the brow-yellow of the common hill hex is now more green, but remind these are heath Hill hexes so in effect most of the area still conforms to the Hill description of the map. I just brought in another differentiation for detail.

What Follows is a list of the various settlements, forts, ruins etc...these will be clarified later, hopefully by your additional help.

Heldann Settlements
Ruins
Villages
Frötzlich
Bochult
Wederfeldt

Towers/Castles
Menigerturm
Karoturm
Arneburg
Grunturm
Grenzburg

Villages
Rupert's Pleite
Sandfeldt
Rhede
Heidenau
Linnig
Listerfeldt
Finsterwalde
Niedenstein
Doppelbude
Herbstein
Olpe
Kornheim
Rosenheim
Blauenhafen
Hürth
Petershagern
Aslar
Waldheim
Kitzingen
Dünenfeldt
Dünendorf
Haferfeldt
Artern
Bad Tendorf
Geinhausen
Waldkirch
Roggenwiese
Merlinerbach
Gratenküste
Pocking
Kindesheim

Town
Blauerndorf
Grunturm

Other
Blauer Leuchtturm

Vestland
Dukedom of Estine
Villages
Estina
Siste Sjanse
Seaforth Bay
Other
Skien (Ruined 985AC)
Hartmut's Torn(Ruined 992AC)
Temple (Dominant Frey/Freya Other Welcome)
Seaforth Tower (mutual use with Norrland)

Vestland
Norrland
Villages
Makelandsby
Bjørnfanger (Bear catcher)
Ravnford(Ravenford)
Ulfjeger(Wolfhunter)
Ravngrend
Trollhøyde
Tretten Troll Hodeskaller(13 Troll Skulls)
Town
Dovefell
Other
Temple (Dominant Odin/Thor, Others Welcome)
Grønn Fyret (green Lighthouse)
1 Trollkarl Torn (Wizard Tower)
Seaforth Tower (Mutual use with Dukedom of Estine)

Vestland
---unnamed North
Villages
Kvinnherad
Selfjord
Bli Hjemme
Tokke
RavnFjord
Other
Temple (Dominantly Loki, Others accepted)
Stones of the Sky
2 Trollkarl Torn (wizard Tower)
1 Trollkarl Torn Ruin (wizard Tower)
Kvinnherad Fyret (lighthouse)

Vestland
Skanicost
Villages
Nissedal
Løkenfeltet
Siljan
Vinje
Ny Sauherad
Gammal Sauherad(Ruined by caveinn cliff 835AC)
Grebbestad
Fyresdal
Nome
Other
Temple (Dominanly Odin/Thor, Others welcome)
Temple (Dominantly Frey/Freya, other Welcome)
Saugherad Fyret (Lighthouse)

Vestland
Verfjord
Villages
Jarthro
Immeningen
Cyckelbora
Ny Vetterden
Ingeting
Ny Mora
Olaf Bättre
Bjorn
Gammal Vetterden (Ruined by Flood 814AC)
Gammal Mora (Ruined by Flood 814AC)
Towers/Keeps
Skogskant Torn
Skogtorn
Dimma Sikt Torn
Namavy Torn
Trolvy Torn
Other
Temple (Dominanly Odin/Thor, Others welcome)
Temple (Dominantly Frey/Freya, other Welcome)
Kvam

Vestland

Namahed
Namassen
Lindas
Bamble
øvgarden
Tromso
Tinn
Torvik (with Torvik's Draggar Ramp)
Other
Torvik's Fyret (Lighthouse)
Namavy Torn

Vestland
Jamtfjord
Villages
Telemark
Jessheim
Porsgrunn
Ebert
Jamt
Kulis
Drabgadal
Bamble
Voss
Arsturi
Evani
Other
Temple (Dominantly Frey/Freya, other Welcome)
Temple (Forsetta, Frigga, others welcome)
Temple (Dominantly Loki, other accepted)
Temple (Dominantly Odin, other welcome)
Jessheim Fyret (Lighthouse)

Vestland
Fynmark
Villages
Kviteseid
Kragerø
Rastabra
Hartstedern
Iljaborn
Town
Sudorn
Towers/Keep
Krabba Torn
Mest Torn
Others
Temple
Temple
Temple

Vestland

Falsterholm
Barri
Breidablik
Laeryd
Eimli
Eljudir
Byrgir
OttarFanger
Town
Namsen
Other
Ruthin Monastery
2 Trollkarl Torn (wizard Towers)

Vestand
Trollheim
Dhemyeld(Ruin 2300BC)
Lynghvi(Ruin 3050BC)
Sjödorf (Ruin 1004AC)
Tavern Dancing Damsel
Naerad (Ruin 1001AC)
Naerad Torn (1001AC)
Old Temple of Idu/Ixion (1700BC)
Bergaed Torn (1000AC)
Kannivall Torn(998AC)
Gammel Vistafjord (500BC)
unknown (dwarven 2300BC)
Dorammnu Torn( 95-AC)
2 Trollkarl Torn (Wizard Towers)
Recent ruins are by settlers and Trolls (I might be wrong with these dates somewhat, so this might be changed)

Vestland Unnamed Central
More will come, I can't stop working on these maps. Any help is welcome :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:16 pm

Another point of discussion...due adventure canon and map canon contradictions.
Jikes..again canon discrepancies and contradictions.
This one is less clear, yet clearly very important

Rhoona, laying against Northwest Rockhome on the South west border of Vestland.
Adventure X3 curse xanathon;
1 Rhoona is regularly Attacked By Ethengerians
2 Rhoona has a well visited Ethengerian quarter
3 Ethengerians trade with the Rhoona population
4 Cretia the Ethengerian immortal of Chaos has a temple in this town
On itself seeming already a contradiction of enemiy vs trade partner, but hey ; being chaotic under their immortal they could sway from one to another.

Map
Makkress Mountain Spur North completely Blocking all Traffick from Ethengar.
Image
Gaz Dwarven/Northern Reaches
Makkres Spur is impassible
There is a vast river/fjord passing through the intended Ethengerian Route and no bridge or ford insight

So the writer of the X3 curse xanathon adventure did not know or did not read the map of X1 well enough
Going around it is maddness for the Ethies, This would last several days to weeksd through the wild irregular hills and wooden hills (not easy with horses used to travers on flat lands, but near impossible, as it is crowded with Trolls, Gnolls, Giants, and such
Going through the mountains is near imppossible to them...especially with horses.

My only assumption to make this logical, is break the Map/Gaz canon (slightly) and make two passage in the mountains;
1 Between the ethengerian Hills west of the Makkress eastbound to the Vestland Hills east of the makkress (where the word Makkress is written
2 betwen the Vestland hills east of the Makkress southbound to the Vestfjord Gap Hills.

Then they are on the northwest coast of the Vestfjord River within a couple of days with less travel and less chance on encounters with awful creatures.

The final problem is reaching the otherside of the River, and while there are no fords or bridges, there may be lowered edges on the opposing sides, where the ethengerian horses (used to more cold than most horses) could swim with an ethengerian rider on back or be towed (by a long rope) or a raft made from trees here from one side to another. to allow rapid travel whil loaded with stolen stuff, they must have extra horses with them, and willing to allow the loss of up to 25% of them minimal

How do you think on this?
Does anybody see other solution I did not?
Please inform me, for maybe this mapsection will be the last, I am already working on it.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:27 pm

Ethengar South East & most of West Vestland, and a large NE piece of Rockhome
Image

As I am awaiting the response of Geoff and maybe even Thorf on their and my reations on the Ethengar North map (and the Spires)...I now worked on the Ethengar SE section of the map...I Had to do this too, it waited way too long. ;)

23-02-2018; Result of the Major Overhaul. Removed the hex shifting flaw I noticed earlier.
Implemented the south border hexes of the Ethengar NE map, and the east borders of the Ethengar South map.
Shifted thus the map west & added a large part of Vestland to comply with the rectangular intended shape of the combined 6 Ethengar Maps. Placed the 8 mile hexes of that region on the blank section of the map, sized it to fit by mileage, overlapped with 1 mile hexes, begane implementing major terrain hexes.
As can be seen much more has to be done. :o

Here the link to the map thus far. https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -768316108(use the green arrow download button to view in detail. :mrgreen:

As with all my maps, and posts...ANY input is more than welcome. :lol: :ugeek:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:12 pm

Ok Back on the issue of Rhoona
The Curse of Xanathon describes several passes and secret passes in the mountins near Rhoona leading to Rockhome or Ethengar, so that is resolved canonnically,...I have to implement this on the map (especially the cretia structure as Ethengar mouth of the passage as the text says.
Although there is no bridge a ferry will be possible, and swimming (if doing an attack from Ethengar) also

The Next issue is the map of Rhoona itself.
The dragon-like creature on the city map seems to depict the north (yet it is not very clear if its head points north or its spout does. I assume the head.
Curse of Xanathon page 3
Located on a Sheltered Fjord nearly 100 miles from the sea, Rhoona has a bustling port from which ships sail to all corners of the known world.
Rhoona may easily be placed on continental map M-1, included with D&D module X1; Ilsle of Dread. Find Vestland's capital of Norrvik, and locate the Fjord next to it. Simply follow the line of the fjord towards the mountains and place Rhoona inside the"V"where the fjord separates into two channels.
The map give Rhoona depicted as a point s-shaped settlement with harbours on the NE point and West side.
This does assume the villages is NOT settled against the mountains like the canon map does...however this can be a placement issue in the 24 (original) and 8 mile hexes (based on the original map)
The "Crown of Ancient Glory places Rhoona even on another different location (totally ignoring the texxt and town map, placing it more on the western side of the eastern riverbranch about three 8 mile hexes below the fork.
Currently (as can be seen in my post just ago, the large black area is the average location of Rhoona as per Vestland/Trailmaps. Yet as you follow the town's map AND its description being settled on the mid of the fork where the rivers meet into the fjord....actually 1one 8 mile hex NE variation from the Trail/vestland map.
This means however, Rhoona is then placed about 8 to 16 miles away from the current known location on the Trail/vestland map, and
It also describes the Wider area of the river on the map, is also actually a fjord with steep sides (else it is not a fjord) on most places. So I have to increase the steep/cliffsides deeper into the area.
Crown of Ancient Glory is clearly flawed, we have decreed, yet hoqw far should we discredit the information of Curse of Xanathon map, Where both text and map seem to place Rhoona exactly in the fork of the rivers,...(literally described as thus). If we deem the Map right two-sided harbour would be impossible, if the citymap/description is right, then the location on the Trailmap and Rhoona must be relacated somewhat to better reveal its real location.
I assume (as told by Thorf we must follow the oldest source), then Curse of Xanathon (also giving the most details) must be the correct one, this does however mean that Rhoona on the Canon maps has to be move on the fork of these rivers. and other locations are incorrect..including the Vestland map/Trailmap. :o :?
How do you all think on that?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:50 pm

I see things have progressed some more - downloading your big map for comment. :)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:23 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:50 pm
I see things have progressed some more - downloading your big map for comment. :)
Great !!! ;)
I desperatly need input... :mrgreen:

My last request to you was viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15023&start=350#p227247

I will post the lastest NE Ethengar update tonight. ...I am working on it as we speak
Here I implemented the information 3050BC by Sturm and the 2300BC by Chimpman.
Mostly remains of the vast forests in the SE, and east region on their maps, and ofcourse remains(mostly ruins) of settlements of those days.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:15 pm

Back on the Rhoona issue.
Trying to discover the Rhoona-Ethengar pass...and the Shrine of Cretia

Take a look at the Trailmap in the first post above detailing Rhoona
From X3 Curse of Xanathon
Journey to the Shrine.(blue text is additional info or question
This trip will take five days of Travel Time. There is no chance of getting lost, since many herds of horses and sheep have been brought along the route. The trail is a wide and muddy track.
The Journey will begin with the group being ferried across the fjord west of Rhoona, by fishing boats.
Once across, the trail begins to climb the ridge west of the fjord.Which Ridge?
After two hours of climbing, the group will reach the top, and from there on follow the wide, gentle ridgecrest to the west for two days.The top of what? 2 hours aint that much, especially as it is not real climbing but more a difficult rise upwards. Keep in mind this trail is used by Sheeps and horse cattle driven by Ethengerians regularly
after this time the caravan trail will veer of from the ridge into a valley leading to the Northwest. it follows this valley, climbing gently, for two more days. This would seem to be the valley where the Label"Vestfjord Gap is depicted, yet it may also be the Vestfjord Gap itself along the River
thev fifth and final day of the journey will be spent climbing the steep approach of the Pass.
The first four days of travel will be through thick evergreen forests, where the group may walk three abreast(Thick Evergreen Forests? where, not even the X1 map, nor the Trailmap has depicted these..Where to place these...It might be a small though dense strip seems the best solution, yet where to place it?.
The final day will be spent on an open and rocky slope. the trail on this day is steep and treacherous, with many switchbacks, where the party must move in a single file.
The summit of the pass will provide the characters with a magnificent vista. The plains of Ethengar are visible, nearly 50 miles away, to the north. --- while the caravan follows the valley down the far side.---If the players follow the track northward,...they hike to the Khanates, which will take them three days. ---
southward, the mighty peaks of Rockhome thrust into the sky.
a narrow, jagged and rocky ridge extends to the right and left of the pass,---two treacherous trails, perched on a knife edge of broken rock, follow the ridges to the left and right. travelling along either of these trails must be done in a single file.
The trails east and west each run for one hour of travel time before ending in a cave mouth. East Chimera cave..West Shrine of Cretia+manticore
Trying to locate all these descriptors this is actually more difficult than imagined before.
Why? because X3 uses the X1 24 mile hex map...and this map does NOT have the detail to reveal the Makress Mountain Spur leading North as per 8 hex map, making a barrier between Ethengar & Vestland.
Then the travel rates seem off. As following the text; travelling in the hills of the valley NW of Rhoona NW then crossing the first mountain Range (which was not on the X!/X3 map, continuing NW and placing the final Pass between the shortest distance in the mountains there, or It could also be the valley of the Kur River through the Vestfjord Gap then NW, and the final Climb would then go north
So How would you (anybody??) resolve this? Which option would you choose
My first inclination seemed to go with option 1 going over the Makkress Mountains NOT displayed in the X1/X3 24 mile hex map, yet the other option might seem functional as well.
Or would you alter the description above? Then which option would you choos.... and how would you alter this.?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:10 pm

Ethengar NE (including North Vestand and SE Heldann)
27-02-2019; Implemented much of the 2300BC information by Chimpman, and 3050BC information by Sturm into the map; mosty remains of the vast forests on the Plains and hills, and of course settlement ruins (including the Ruins of the Magical Locations---(these last areas will maybe altered somewhat depending on information by Chimpman)
I also decided to place Rhoona as per text according X3...which is several miles North to the merging of the riverfjords...hope you agree with this.
Image
Direct link with green dowload button right for seeing all detail; https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -782037337
Ethengar SE (including Most of Vestland and NE Rockhome)
27-02-2019; Implemented much more detail based on Canon maps, Canon book texts, Fanon 2300BC map/text by Chimpman, 3050BC map and text by Sturm . Added remnants if the vast forests, old ruins (with dating dots) and such. Added more villages in Central Vestland. Had to enlarge the SE map as the NE map was somewhat larger. These hexes will be added soon, or the SE map will shift somewhat east (and west hexes will be added from Ethengar S map)and E hexes will be added if need be to be fitting perfectly. Later more detail will be brought.
Image
Direct link with green dowload button right for seeing all detail; https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -768316108

To Sturm and Chimpman. Thanx for your creations,... They brought great detail to this otherwise booring map areas.
Last edited by Robin on Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:24 pm

As can be seen I had already placed the Cretia Pass on the map between the two statues(as canon in the X3 text depicting the map on the wall of Xanaton's room), yet its location might need to be placed north of the Kur river valley (the large green valley in the lower right of this map where Sturm's Radianceline pillare are remnants of the Blackmoor era.--The Hur Valley has already Alpine meadows placed in it). this depends on input by all of you..

Eitherway...
I Truly hope you will ALL bring me more input, and react upon my questions, helping resolving them. :)
As help is needed...I can't do it all myself. :|
Any help will be fine and more than welcome.
:mrgreen:


I know; :shock: I hop, and jump, and shift from one map to another and even in these maps from A to B all over the map :o . It is the only way my mind works and does not overload :? . Otherwise I go way too deep in a location and forget to sleep again for several days :o :oops: . Not good for my overall health :evil: , so Hence I hop and hop in my work and also between Realilty :ugeek: :roll:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:02 pm

Question to our Italian Mystara fans :?: :?:
I discovered this fan-site
http://lotsquare.altervista.org/Le%20Ma ... terre.html
Image
Image
It seems to hold something interesting about Ethengar. yet I can't translate it (google translate makes it a mess incomprehensible to me \and all text in the images has to manually be tranlated. Also the site does not seem to have a "home page"or something similar (or I simply can't find it). So I can't fight my way through :(
So I request translation help here....and if possible help, if this is indeed IN Ethengar (or near it (West Vestland, North Rockhome, South Heldann, or East Glantri) where is it assumed to take place?
The Illustration seems to have Roman(aka Thyatian) architectural influences, yet the banner with two cutlasses and a raven is a whirlpool of blood (or is it a rose(or both) with a flock of raven flying by, with some indian writing.....makes it a mixture of Glantrian, Ylari, Sindhi, or other ...seems interesting enough to be important for my map, yet does it belong there? and if so where?

So again I need help here.
Please? :? :?:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:33 pm

Ethengar NE, (and Heldann S, Vestland NW)

01-03-2019; Couldn't do much, so I worked on some details of the NE map, shifted the whole map slightly to accomodat a perfect fit with the NW and N maps.
Image
I did add an interesting feature, though...the "Cretia's swordstrike to Terra" for example.
As the Plateaux still slowly rises, several areas on the edges are stressed and break. This giant rupture was created in a single moment, and the few Ethengars who did witness itm=, could see only a large blast of updraft dust, and sand. As if the air broke the earth. Imagining this as the Invisible Cretia punishing or battling Terra for some reason, they think Cretia is a powerful corrector of the Other Immortals when they do something wrong in the eyes of Cretia.
Of course no Immortals are responsible for this, let alone Cretia against Terra. However, it did spur some interesting religious sentiments and antisentiments.
Over time the rupture was filled with snow, froze (and expanded slightly) thawed the next spring, and this repeated over the years slowly widening the rupture a few inches a year and deepening, until, somewhere in the future, the ground will buckle, and seperate itself from the plateau like the other sections dis earlier. This of course would be of great impact (political ; Ethengar plateaux shrinks, Geological/Biological; great geological change , sliding landmass, altering area, readjusting environment, etc. Socia; almost none, except to the umanoids living in the highest moors, which will probably shift a hundred yards to a mile North, North-east or East., with maybe devastating results...Estimated happening somewhere betwen 1200AC to 1800AC
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:08 am

Very interesting location and story! :-)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:17 am

Sturm wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:08 am
Very interesting location and story! :-)
Thanx...I do think You mean Cretia's Swordstrike... indeed nice mixture of Geology and assumed religious/immortal activity due lack of geological understanding......
As I do not know anythink of the castle? in italian above.

Since You are italian... Could you help me? Is it really Ethengerian? Than whatis it, where is it located?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:50 pm
I see things have progressed some more - downloading your big map for comment. :)
Today I tried to super impose all information, in the main map.
Image
I did not do the full hexes, yet the 8 mile hexes overall seem to be fitting (there is a small cluster of the hexes to be, placed in an 8 mile hex.
This is drawn thus far from the overlay.
I also copied the Lake Erid, rescaled it to fit 1 mile hexes, and fit it between the spires as per CoAG, filled it with blue.
it is on a different location as on your map, yet follows now canon. Any Input Ideas on that? for example, Your lake could also be placed and just renamed. it would add more variety to the region

Thus far it seems to be fitting nicely,
And following your idea of the area being a forested section...
The CoAG seems already have place clusters of trees on the 0.5 mile hex map as dotted clusters, which now seem to fit almost excellently on the superimposed map.
See here for best detailhttps://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -780327662

The Problem now lies mainly with the D mountai hex
Image
What to do with it?
Disregard this? Place it where it is?, place it NW of A?

As to the region North of Grunturm (on the NE map) I already placed Forested Hills there, which seem best fitting canon, your map, AND JTR's map
so I think that section is almost resolved of issues.

So a lot to ponder about.
I await your reaction eagerly
Thanx Thusfar :mrgreen:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:59 pm

Ethengar NW (and SW Heldann, far east Glantri)
02-03-2019; worked a bit on the NW of this map. As I wait for Geoff's input before working on that section.
So I created the Hyavik region; Castle(ruin), village and new (temporary) camp...in reflection to the canon described attacks in 926AC and 919AC, and a more recent one in 983AC responsible for some territorial changes (forest cutting for example, and logging left behind, as hinder to the horses) The camp is now fully stocked with a massive load of arrows, ballisat's and hasd three mages with magic missiles under control of the local clergy.
Also created a new small wooden fort named Ethieschlachtung (aka Ethengar Slaughter) With some thing special ...and brought in more detail like rapids, currents, small villages, mines, trails and minor trails. Also done the eastern side of the Hyavik trail the Heath and moors of the hills, which had not been done...more detail will follow of coarse.
Image
See here for best detail and green dowload button right.https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -780327662

1000AC 15th Fyrmont, location inside the new Fort Ethieschlachtung
Ok Kameraden
Dieser Sammlung is voll angetreten.
Is die úbersetzungsprug fertig zum einsetzen?
Jawohl Kapitän Von Schlacht.
Meine Damen und
***twinkling sound*** gentlemen.
You are all lords or even mayor of the minor settlements in the Southeast of Heldann. We must speak about the insugeons of the Ethies, or better said Ethengerian raiders, but also the increase in Gnolls, Trolls, and Orcs.
Let it be said, all your advise, questions and other ideas have been collected and weighed in the dississcion being made.
first; The early agreement to retreat all population from the area has been set. For those poor individuals trying to remain there, they will be abandoned and if captured may be found to be traitors to the holy cause of Lady Vanya. Only Military forces and work groups protected by military forces are allowed in the area.
Thin includes of the Roter Spitzen Hügel aka Red Spire Hills south of the Streel River, but also include the Waldbeeren Heide, Waldbeeren Moor sout of the Grasshügelfelz, and Braunkohler Sandplatte. Fort Heideburg, the villages Dell and erica are already abanondoned after the last raids, and the Shrine to Vanya damaged. All minor settlements known are being cleared as we speak and the inhabitants (and any cattle, tools or other personal profits) grouped together at Castle Eisenturm to be relocated elsewhere.
The Brown coal will be harvested as before, under military protection, yet workers no longer live near the area, and must accompany the daily 8 mile trek back and fort from Castle Eisenturm. This limits the work time to a mere 8 to 9 hours a day, so we must accept a decrease in the profits made.
Second; All villages north of the Streel are now oblidged to take up refugees from these aformentioned area, and---And I must state this is an Order of the State--- treat them as a normal citizin. As normal any suspicious behavior like magic items, spells, rituals or goatlike facial hair must be reported to the local Heldann Patrol.
Third; Losses of profits due harvest, mining, foraging, hunting, or else are now losses of the state...and the state says we have to accept until other resolutions can be taken. Sono refunds to farmers, miners or other....they are already allowed to bring all they can bear with them when forced away. Of course taxofficials and agents of the state will check all of this for illegal or suspicious items. These will be confiscated and the owner might have to suffer legal issues.
Fourth; As the mining community Samenbrun is also forced to relocated to the north of the Streel a New Samenbrun is build here under the Protection of the new fort Ethieschlachtung under my personal control.
Samenbrun will have small vessels and a guard company to still be able to mine the valuable Silver, gems and iron from the area. Which mine will be worked on a weekly basis is discussed with me personal before the perion begins. This allto protect our earnings and citizens.
The new Kamp Zollner has been set up along the best defensible section of the Pass to Hyavik and inland Heldann.
So Mayors, rulers and family heads, return to your settlements as soon as possible to collect your family, animals , tools and such. You may leave the area on your own account, but we will check the region the next full moon, which is over 14 days. Don't tally but hurry. Those needing help will recive this in the 4 days from this date.
And finally; The adventurers and spies have done great work. We have illustrations and examples of the face of the Ethies main Immortal ...the dispicabble Cretia. The loyal mages working for the State under control ofg our forces and the Lady Vanya have now succeeded in making a functionable Steel Golem in the image of Cretia. Our first defence was a real slaughter,as of the last recorded attack 3 weeks ago....no survivors and only three escapees. That Ethie tribe has now lost almost all functionable men, and won't try again the first several years, we presume...and others will have been warned by the escaping few. This Golem is near indestructable, second the Ethies don't dare to strike their immortal and when hit even deem it is their own fault. If attacks from Ethies are stopped due this, we will further create a few of these formidable magical creations under our full controll
Image
It is still unsure if this will help, as the golem has only a movement of 22 miles a day. Yet we must try.
So thus far all public information to all of you. Relay this to your members and in the name of Vanya; we will break these Ethie attacks.

"You can now stop the Translation spell Master Heinbruch..." ***twinkling sound*** Warum eigentlich ein ubersetzung?..Weil wir auch Glantrian fluchtlinge, Thyatians, und even Lupin bevolkerung haben...Darum bin ich auch oberhaubt fuhrer von Fort Ethieschlachtung...ich weis..du bist nur ein hilfreicher magier...ein gutbezahlte magier uberhin, du brauchst nicht zu wissen, nur gehorsamen.
The sullen population leaves the improvised room in Fort Ethieschlachtung, unknown what will happen, and somewhat afraid what forced to do.

For those not able to read german---aka the red Heldann sections;here Translation
Ok comrades This collection is fully complete. Is the translation spell ready to be used? Yes Captain von Schlacht. Ladies and...

Why a translation? .. Because we also have Glantrian refugees, Thyatians, and even Lupin populations ... That's why I'm also a leader of Fort Ethieschlachtung ... I know .. you're just a helpful magician ... a well-paid magician after all, you do not need to know, just being obedient.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:39 am

Robin wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:02 pm
Question to our Italian Mystara fans :?: :?:
I discovered this fan-site
http://lotsquare.altervista.org/Le%20Ma ... terre.html
It seems to be a homebreed campaign, I did not find any other Mystaran name beside that "barrack of the Ethengarians races" which indeed looks like Roman/Italian in the location of "Old Village". Could be useful as a barrack of Ethengarian mercenaries in Thyatis though..
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:45 am

Robin wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:59 pm
This Golem is near indestructable, second the Ethies don't dare to strike their immortal and when hit even deem it is their own fault.
Nice idea that golem but I think beside the initial effectiveness, soon the nearest Ethengarian Khan will be able to destroy it with his wizards.
Such a thing could also be counterproductive as Ethengarians could see as sacrilege and be inspired to proclaim a holy war..
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:55 pm

Sturm wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:45 am
Robin wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:59 pm
This Golem is near indestructable, second the Ethies don't dare to strike their immortal and when hit even deem it is their own fault.
Nice idea that golem but I think beside the initial effectiveness, soon the nearest Ethengarian Khan will be able to destroy it with his wizards.
Such a thing could also be counterproductive as Ethengarians could see as sacrilege and be inspired to proclaim a holy war..
Great You noticed the counterproductivity of the item like I intended. :P
That was the Heldann gullibility in trying to subdue the Ethengerians (aka they were named Ethies as a insulting shortword) by using their faith against them as if the words of Vanya are Stronger.
As I have put this date before the WotI (on purpose), the attacks the Ethengerians make described in the WotI campaign deep in Heldann territory could have used this incentive indeed. The golem probably would have even been taken over and transported to one of the few stone temples the Ethengerians have...in actuality helping to strengthen their faith....in the end.
That eventually the Ethengerians are driven off, and bypassed in the Heldann Knight further actionsd, could in the end even been used against them, to reinforce the Ethengerian borders later..especially against Heldannners....A Ethengerian proverb; "a swarm of bees could sting you to death, but when it spreads out, it can only sting a boil"
This general idea has great use for DM's using Heldann or even Ethengerian campaigns stretching far into the WotI timeline without disrupting it, maybe even enhancing it, yet in either case give more logic than just a raid of Ethengerians on Heldann.
Sturm wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:39 am
Robin wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:02 pm
Question to our Italian Mystara fans :?: :?:
I discovered this fan-site
http://lotsquare.altervista.org/Le%20Ma ... terre.html
It seems to be a homebreed campaign, I did not find any other Mystaran name beside that "barrack of the Ethengarians races" which indeed looks like Roman/Italian in the location of "Old Village". Could be useful as a barrack of Ethengarian mercenaries in Thyatis though..
Ah...ok...in Thyatis...sounds and feels logical. Thanx for the great help again ;) :mrgreen: .
At least I know now I don't need to implement this in my map.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Seer of Yhog » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Surfacing for a bit, and reviewing what's been done. I'll try to answer your question below:
Robin wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm
The Problem now lies mainly with the D mountai hex
Image
What to do with it?
Disregard this? Place it where it is?, place it NW of A?
If you want to be faithful to all of the maps that have been made so far, what I would do is use the 1-mile scale to draw a narrow spur of mountains in the northwest corner of area "D", and surround them with barren hills, plus 1 or 2 forested hill hexes. I would probably also, for added drama and coolness, draw a tight escarpment around that spur, which would create a razor-thin, steep mountainous ridge. Doing this would respect all the maps while adding a series of possible cliff-side caves for adventurers to explore and die in.

Does this help?

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:15 am

Ethengar North (including Heldann)
Ok my reseach of the Crown of Ancient Glory map of the Lake Erid region.
Image
This is the research of the Lake Erid from the Crown of Ancient Glory adventure
This research is needed for the Ethengar North Map

A; Map original (major section) Lake colored, scales set to fit two 1/2 mile hexes (as the original map is) in one 1 mile hex map (as I use
B; Map original with colors to used symbols. Green to claeify the dots as being trees, and brown to the rock stuctures (aka original hill symbols, however not used in every hex, so variety of hexes was not clear, and hence my assumption to make these symbols into Rock Formations )
C; preliminary end result; used 1 hex symbols on all areas to clarify variety
See here for details;(green dowload button right; https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -788529937
Seer of Yhog wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:54 pm
Surfacing for a bit, and reviewing what's been done. I'll try to answer your question below:
Robin wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm
The Problem now lies mainly with the D mountai hex
Image
What to do with it?
Disregard this? Place it where it is?, place it NW of A?
If you want to be faithful to all of the maps that have been made so far, what I would do is use the 1-mile scale to draw a narrow spur of mountains in the northwest corner of area "D", and surround them with barren hills, plus 1 or 2 forested hill hexes. I would probably also, for added drama and coolness, draw a tight escarpment around that spur, which would create a razor-thin, steep mountainous ridge. Doing this would respect all the maps while adding a series of possible cliff-side caves for adventurers to explore and die in.

Does this help?

Geoff
Geoff...you don't know how much inspiration you have given me. :mrgreen: :lol: :lol: :o :shock: :o :twisted: :geek: :ugeek:
It was indeed my intend to stay as close to the Canon sources in the first plave and the fanon sources combined in the second place. The problem lies in the difficult contradictions. I am happy that you, as one of these fanon sources is available to help...therefore GREAT THANX :mrgreen:
I Used the merged map of you and JTR as base, Implemented the above Lake Erid within, together with my impression of your suggestion here.
Image

Hope you like it. I feel this is a good attempt at merging all sources and your comment into one.
Any comments are more than welcome ;)
No bother if great changes are needed, this is is a test example, and needs implementing it into the Ethengar North Map and more details when you think it is ok.
See here for details;(green dowload button right; https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -788530903


One Last question remain Geoff...You drew Lake Erid more east, while canon placed it more west. That is resolved now...yet would you like to have a similar lake (somewhat larger) on the location you used??
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Seer of Yhog » Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:40 pm

That looks awesome - no comments from me!

And I would be happy to have another lake. :)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:02 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:40 pm
That looks awesome - no comments from me!

And I would be happy to have another lake. :)
Great Reaction !! :o :mrgreen:
Feeling somewhat proud now. :cool:
I'll enter it in the main map and a extra lake where you created it...Probably that will become a moorwater based lake...so oxygen low, no fish, dark water, many dead trees around it, and I assume a adult black dragon living within.(mostly leaving the Heldanners alone, living of the wildlife and stupid humanoids and adventurers in the region). This all de the Heath and High Moors on the Hills. Maybe some seasonal(summer only) lizardmen reside here
Coming up soon (first I have to do some work for next Threshold Magazine). So a short pause.
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Last edited by Robin on Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:30 pm

South East Karameikos/Dymrak Forest
For the upcoming Threshold Magazine I Compiled here all the sources I need to make the I mile hex map of the region for my Article on "The Barrel".
I thus temporarily placed all my attention on that article and this accompanying map.
Any help by input is welcome

Map sources
A B10 Night's Dark Terror; major regional 3 mile hex map
Oldest and most detailed source
B Thorf's Replica map Gaz1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos/TM1; 8 mile hex map
C Thorf's Replica map of Karameikos
D Sturm's SE Karameikos 3.2 miles hexmap
E B10 based Fanmap in 3.2 mile hex
F Selfmade extension to B10 based on B10 and Gaz1 map in 3 mile hexes
G Thorf's replica map of X1 in 6 mile hexes
H Novel Fall of Magic inside map
J Taymora 2300BC fanbased map by Chimpman (??) in 8 mile hexes
K Dymrak region 3050BC by Sturm in 24 mile hexes

Image
Download for better detail here, green arrow right
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -788886325
Important Detail maps
B10 Jaggadash Lair
B10 Glosh-Klunk Lair
B10 Sukisyn
B10 Haven Lake
Textual map information
DDA4 The Dymrak Dread; , Roderick Lord Forester of Dymrak, Home Village Ryania of Alexei Schlepin,
Dymrak Dread aka Kosivikh Goblins, a day's travel from the last human settlement Ryania, hidden path leads into fen, higher grounds, high hill surrounded by putrid fen, natural caverns ,geological basin in the centre where many streams meet, lizardmen widow spider

As Thorf explained, the Oldest source would be the best canon source.
As X1(G) is the oldest source (yet offers almost no detail) and B10(A) the oldest most detailed source I base the 1 mile map on this mostly
B&C maps offer a lot if extra information yet do not hold most of the information of B10 which it should and could have --even in 8 miles. It disregarded the fields between Cherkass & Segenyev, The petrified wood of the Wolfskull goblins, the Syereb River, the size and shape of Lake of lost dreams, and the settlements. It also added much more hills which did not exist in B10, altered the course of the Rugalov river (in B10 it bend eastward, in the othermaps it bends westward instead.

(D) Sturm based his map apparently primarily on the (C) Gaz 1 adjusted map and also did not enter the grasslands, the petrified wood, and reduced the length of the Syereb River(it is at least 8 of his 3.2 mile hexes more SE than he did), and replaced the Ghnasska/Redblade goblins with the Dread Goblins of DDA4 adventure. He also kept the hills and river Rugalov orientation
Sturm did enter a lot more interesting locations
(E) this fan map is reasonbly equal to B10(A) and keeps regard to cations and adds the DDA4 locations to the map.
(F) is an old addition to B10 as it was thus near to the coast it needed this to be added. It is primarily based on B10, following Gaz1 coast lines. It does add the location of the Barrel and the canon elven village of Callanya.
All that said we have tome to a compromise in merging these sources.
First of all the missing areas from B10 need to be added, that is clear.
This does replace the light forest of B, C & D maps.
The riverbend will be following B10(A) course.
The locations of Sturm's map will be added, however The Dread Goblins will be on the easter side of the Rugalove as the text description of DDA4 does describe a swampish region with a natural geological hill in between within 1 day of wandering through the woods from Ryaniawhich is about 12 miles. The text describes the location in the middle of the woods, so I understand Sturm's interpretation, yet the eastern side of the river fits the text better.
As the hills are thus prominent on the Canon 8 mile maps and the B10 maps did not use a differentiation between forest, forest hills and hills, I will follow the hills assuggested on Sturm's map while also implementing all the B10 locations. this will reduce the hiils spur near the wolfskull lair.
To allow the Syereb River to come to be a small ridge of hills has to be created west of the Redblade lair To allow the water to become a river. As this is reasonably near to the sea, it would deem illogical the water would not flow south to the sea, so a hilly region /allevation is needed to allow the flow patter to be correct, As such I will shorten Sturm's waterline fromthe wolfskull lair, and make the water which according to the deatil maps does flow from this lairto go to the east adding to the Rugalov instead.
As to the hills SE of Lake of lost dreams I will keep these as per B10 and make the forest light as per B, C, D maps but with heavier sections in between. The DDA4 swamp area will thus come to be south of this region.
Then I add the Canon roads and trails as described or mapped, I will add more trails as per behavioral flow patterns.
and add the sea trails as per C map.
As thus far I know there is no real connection between Rugalov Keep and the village , so this must be by Ferry. As the canon sources (KKoA or Almanacs?),the Fall of Magic novel and clear logic does reveal a clear stone bridge and a high tower on the keep or describes a bridge to have been or will be erected here I will enter the a Bridge.
One other note is the width of the Rugalov River.Being logical to made on the B&C&D&E maps, it is illogical and not natural to have such a wide river(at least3 miles wide between Rugalov and the keep. I will reduces this to a more logical and natural width with sid beds due the sea influences.
And last but not least, the Karameikan and Traladaran Border must follow logic. As it follows the hex lines, there must be reasons for each hex to belong to one side or the other. mostly these are geological or ecological (Elevation, water, Forest/Hill lines) or social(Mines, Roads).
As neither seems to be applied here I have to create these.

If you have any input on this map following the above compilation and thoughts on the sources, do it As Soon As Possible(aka in the upcoming week at best), for I am mapping as we go as Threshold Magazine has a deadline.

The map will be revealed in the upcoming Threshold, not before that, but after that is out, it will be revealed here too.
The fanbased maps of 2300BC and 3050BC, indicate a town ruin (probably Lumm) in the moors, and a village ruin in the north hills, but also a large lake where B10 gave grasslands, a slim mountain chain going south into the woods and a similar chain where now the coastline is going further south. these clearly dictate geological differences, and more material to fuse together.
Last edited by Robin on Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sturm
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:21 am

I used a 3.2 map originally done by Agathokles http://pandius.com/karameikos-3_2m.png which I think used Thorf's map as starting point and added some B-modules locations.
Then I also added the seats of several noble families, mostly from Karameikos Noble Families by Simone Neri http://pandius.com/knoblfam.html and then I also added some original location, so ask me if you do not find something.
You are right I did not used B10 informations however, should I find the time to revise the map, I will do it!
Editor of Threshold, the Mystara Magazine: http://pandius.com/thrs_mag.html

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