Remember that in GAZ1 and derived maps (KKoA, Dungeon #59, etc.) Kelvin is wrongly placed, so it's actually found one 8mph north of the Volaga-Shuttarga junction and not on it (as the city detail map in GAZ1 instead correctly shows). So I'd ignore altogether the fact that the Crimpshrine starts on the Shuttarga. The adventure has it start in Kelvin, and that's all; the little description of what the boat does before reaching Kelvin is useless to the adventure, so I'd ignore it because it originates from a repeated mistake.Robin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pmThis section of the adventure seems somewhat off. It suggests the departure is on the Highforge area ( as seen by the distance covered is 8 miles) yet this is an empty region. At 16 miles nort of Kelvin is Dwallar which could be used instead as starting location then the downstream speed would be 8 mph instead 4. This also a more reasonable speed downstream when reflecting to the 3 miles upstreamWhen the Crimpshrine departs Kelvin, it moves swiftly south down Hillfollow/Shutterga River for two hours traveling 4mph before it slows to pass under the massive drawbridge which links the northern and southern segments of the King's Road. Three hours after it departed, the riverboat makes a sharp turn to the northeast to take it up the Castellan River to Seragrad. Going upstream its speed slows to 3mph and it travels some thirty miles upriver over the course of the day.
Well, don't be so harsh on the author! After all Kelvin divides the King's/Duke's Road in two segments, one going south to Speculaurm and one going north (ok, northeast) to Selenica.
The central drawbridge seems the only reasonable explaination. It also makes sense because IIRC sailing boats carrying elven guards from Specularum are said to sail the river heading to Threshold in the Expert Set description (but I have to check).
I'd rather preserve the adventure setting than a terrain feature; a hobgoblin army that near to Highforge, an isolated village which sits on a major river and paved road. All in all, I can't see the benefits of this location apart from some minor terrain easiness.Robin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm--I simply feel the suggested location along the Sutterga as per Sturm's map seems most reasonable as it is literally on the edge of the Hill demarkation. It also fits the bill as the Shutterga is much wider and deeper than the Volaga, which is slow but wider downstream from Sielo's fort, and faster and smaller upstream. The only problem lies in the Gnomish settlement of Dwallar on the west shore, which should have been noticed, yet maybe the width of the river and the rain did prevent that.
Also note that, going with GAZ1, it's some Callarii clans and not gnomes living in the forested hill stretch of land between the Windrush and Shuttarga rivers, miles south of Highforge (GAZ1, page 6, "Callarii Lands" paragraph). Maybe there could be a couple of gnomish settlements (like the gnomes' ferry of B10) on the river banks, but the interior should harbor elves (and feature forested hills).
Note that canonwise the two settlements are called Sielo (B10, placed) and Guido's Fort (B5, unplaced); the identification of Sielo with Guido's Fort comes from the fanon campaign of S.B. Wilson, hence "Sielo's Fort". In B10 Sielo is a simple "lumber camp" the size of Sukiskyn, so it's unlike it's the same fortified trading post of B5 - even if we came up with some explaination for the double name. Then you could add another village (Guido's Fort) between Bywater and Seragrad, but it would mess further with the setting of B10 - I could imagine that the Iron Ring, searching the whole area for the Hutaakan tapestry, has razed the smaller settlements before moving a larger goblin army against Guido's Fort and Seragrad. The upper Volaga proposal I made in the previous post is still by best choice from a setting point of view (maybe not so terrain-wise).Robin wrote: ↑Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm--There is but one solution on the Volaga suggestion and that is that Guido's Fort and Sielo's Fort are the same, and the location of the Hill is the high plateaux of B10, and the Temple of the Dark Triad with the Hobgoblins is located somewhat deeper on the plateaux hill. This seems to fit the assumed empty shores below Guido's/Sielo's fort as most settlements are somewhat of the shore(and could be unnoticed, especially in bad weather), and the moor is wide and empty. It is used to transport logs as per B10 and Logic by flow alone to Kelvin (as per B10/Crimpshire adventure).
When looking at this I think the author of the Haven B1-9 fitt-in section might have looked upon the B10 map and might have misread Sielo for Guido.
But the map features the Hill, and Guido's Fort is on the opposite side of the river (not shown), so if this stragely wide part of the river is in the Dreamlands, then the Fort is found there as well... I'd rather admit the other side of the river has not been drawed on the map (hence we can put it at the width we prefer), or that the scale is simply off (think of DDA1's Coliseum).
Another side note: years ago (before even the time of Threshold #1 ) I posted on the forum a list of Thyatian noble families I used in my Karameikos campaign, with indication of a general area where I had placed their lands. I see in later fan works (like Sturm's map and agathokles' Lords of the Cruth Lowlands campaign) their names have been used to name villages here and there on the map; apart from their precise locations, which are obviously different from the ones I used (since I never posted a map, Sturm could not know their precise placement), these are family, not settlement names. So if you need the names of the settlements rules by these families for the map labels, I can provide them.