1 Mile Hex Mapping

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Gecko
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Gecko »

Robin- It looks like DeviantArt changed their display template and I can no longer find the "download" button. Am I missing the option to download somewhere obvious? I can't get a clear enough view to comment on your maps (though I probably wouldn't have time to comment anyway - today is the first chance I've had to log in and post here from my computer rather than just my phone in quite some time, and this coming few weeks is supposed to get even busier at work).

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Yes Shawn.. and that is the good thing of hex sizes..., you can rumble a bit with it

Great, as you take N2, don't forget the accompanying text, as these explain the inner maps have to be reversed too
Last edited by Robin on Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Gecko wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:56 am
Robin- It looks like DeviantArt changed their display template and I can no longer find the "download" button. Am I missing the option to download somewhere obvious? I can't get a clear enough view to comment on your maps (though I probably wouldn't have time to comment anyway - today is the first chance I've had to log in and post here from my computer rather than just my phone in quite some time, and this coming few weeks is supposed to get even busier at work).
:o :shock: :o :shock: ;(
They are indeed changing some things and the button is indeed less visible
For all my maps on deviant art use the green arrow button to the right...see picture (which now more clearly depicts its size)

Image

Also you can view/and copy most, as these are placed in original size to view ---just click a few times on the image to enlarge to the size required. you can move up/down /sideways by the grey beams on the bottom/side of the screen...and you can click rightmouse to store the image as it then is.

Hope this helps :o :ugeek: :mrgreen: :geek: :mrgreen:
Don't draw your sword yet ;) ;) ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by stanles »

Robin wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:35 am
Yes Shawn.. and that is the good thing of hex sizes..., you can rumble a bit with it

Great as yo N@, don't forget the accom[anying text, as these explain the inner maps have to be reversed too
yep, got it. There might be an update this weekend ... I can't guarantee it though.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by stanles »

Robin wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:40 am
Gecko wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:56 am
Robin- It looks like DeviantArt changed their display template and I can no longer find the "download" button. Am I missing the option to download somewhere obvious? I can't get a clear enough view to comment on your maps (though I probably wouldn't have time to comment anyway - today is the first chance I've had to log in and post here from my computer rather than just my phone in quite some time, and this coming few weeks is supposed to get even busier at work).
:o :shock: :o :shock: ;(
They are indeed changing some things and the button is indeed less visible
For all my maps on deviant art use the green arrow button to the right...see picture (which now more clearly depicts its size)
hey Robin

I noticed on the weekend that the look and feel of the pages had changed, this is what it looks like here. I highlighted in a red circle where the download button is now. Is this what you're seeing Gecko?

Image

Wow, that must be the first time I posted an image here ... that was a little bit more annoying that I thought ... was it always like that?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

stanles wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:37 am
Robin wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:40 am
Gecko wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:56 am
Robin- It looks like DeviantArt changed their display template and I can no longer find the "download" button. Am I missing the option to download somewhere obvious? I can't get a clear enough view to comment on your maps (though I probably wouldn't have time to comment anyway - today is the first chance I've had to log in and post here from my computer rather than just my phone in quite some time, and this coming few weeks is supposed to get even busier at work).
:o :shock: :o :shock: ;(
They are indeed changing some things and the button is indeed less visible
For all my maps on deviant art use the green arrow button to the right...see picture (which now more clearly depicts its size)
hey Robin

I noticed on the weekend that the look and feel of the pages had changed, this is what it looks like here. I highlighted in a red circle where the download button is now. Is this what you're seeing Gecko?

Image

Wow, that must be the first time I posted an image here ... that was a little bit more annoying that I thought ... was it always like that?
That is strange I have it still as I pictured above... :o :? :roll:
I assume it is indeed the button you encircled Shawn
stanles wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:22 am
Robin wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:35 am
Yes Shawn.. and that is the good thing of hex sizes..., you can rumble a bit with it

Great as yo N@, don't forget the accom[anying text, as these explain the inner maps have to be reversed too
yep, got it. There might be an update this weekend ... I can't guarantee it though.
Sorry for my Typo's. was very tired when hastily trying to respond.
Fixed the text now.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Gecko »

The screenshot Shawn posted is close to what I see, but not exactly. The circled icon indeed seems to mean “download”, unfortunately I have the three icons before it (without the text), and the first of the three after it, but just a blank section of screen in between. I suspect Robin is seeing the template one gets when logged in, while Shawn and I have the non-logged in version- him on the desktop version, and myself on a mobile version. I’ll have to try pulling it up next time I get on my computer instead of my phone.

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

I have adressed the Issue to Deviantart service desk, maybe they can be helpful/informative. I hope
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm »

Robin wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 am
ok...Then the villages Kamateros, Mirdal and Styrdul are actually Elven Villages, just as Cenwyst, Korgen, Jadova, Rifflian, Malass, Rechyndyr, Laesirith up to the Dymrak villages Bernabeth, Gelglais, Gurauth, Callanya.
I feel (due the dwarvish/gnomish name) that Styrdul would be Gnomish, maybe mixed gnomish/elven
All these I drew from Sturm's map..wherever he got them I do not know...alas
More informations on these places can be found here: http://pandius.com/highfrgk.html and I also did a 1mph map here: http://pandius.com/Highforge_Kingdom.png. Not much of it is canon. The southern hills should be indeed inhabited both by gnomes and elves.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Thanx Sturm. I was already using the map, as you might have recognized on the Karameikos 1 mile map.
The text is indeed useful
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Karameikos
Yay...I have become a White Dragon now. cool (in both ways of the word)
Image


Ok now to the map
the work becomes way more difficult as we go deeper into the detail.
Brought in more detail, placed several locations. Preprepared the Dmitri/Vorloi fork of Karameikos. I had to cut this of earlier as the map in its whole became too heavy to work upon on my old PC.
So now the fork is placed seperatly, within the map (be assured; I did use an overlap).

Yet now I discovered after checking/overlapping the X1 and current map, a coastal canon inconsistency. The coastline of the 8 mile hex maps (on which the fanon maps were based) is way of to the original x1 6 mile hex maps. I have to redo the whole coastline keeping canon, and fanon intact or shift it . :ugeek: :twisted:
Prelimenary tries revealed already that the Specuilarum bay will move more west, the Dmitrov/Vorloi fork will extend and be of different shape, and the Kerosinos area is also somewhat off. :twisted: and then I haven't even begun to place the 1700/2300 BC information into the region
aaargh...oeps...this is better...roarrrr :P

Eitherway, here the result thus far :lol:
Image

also I make sketches and collect West Karamekos/Shire information, as that side has to be done too :o
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm »

Robin wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:46 pm
also I make sketches and collect West Karamekos/Shire information, as that side has to be done too :o
I have also 1mph maps of the Black Swamp and Halag, still unpublished, I can share.
For them I used material from
“Blight Swamp Compilation” http://pandius.com/blight_swamp_compilation.pdf by Irving Galvez and
“Lords of the Cruth Lowlands” by Giampaolo Agosta (a sandbox campaign in Western Karameikos) http://pandius.com/CruthLowlands-joined.pdf
Locations in the swamp are different in the two sources so I made my choices to merge them.
they also use locations from The Treasure of the Hideous One By David Cook, in AC2: Combat Shield and Mini Adventure, 1984 but as the map in AC2 is generic on purpose the placement of those locations in the Blight Swamp is left to the DM so for example you'll see me, Irving and Giampaolo all placed them differently.
The Dragon’s Den boxed set By Ken Rolston, 1992 is also set in the Gulf of Halag, even if names have been changed.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Sturm wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:23 am
Robin wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 7:46 pm
also I make sketches and collect West Karamekos/Shire information, as that side has to be done too :o
I have also 1mph maps of the Black Swamp and Halag, still unpublished, I can share.
For them I used material from
“Blight Swamp Compilation” http://pandius.com/blight_swamp_compilation.pdf by Irving Galvez and
“Lords of the Cruth Lowlands” by Giampaolo Agosta (a sandbox campaign in Western Karameikos) http://pandius.com/CruthLowlands-joined.pdf
Locations in the swamp are different in the two sources so I made my choices to merge them.
they also use locations from The Treasure of the Hideous One By David Cook, in AC2: Combat Shield and Mini Adventure, 1984 but as the map in AC2 is generic on purpose the placement of those locations in the Blight Swamp is left to the DM so for example you'll see me, Irving and Giampaolo all placed them differently.
The Dragon’s Den boxed set By Ken Rolston, 1992 is also set in the Gulf of Halag, even if names have been changed.
Great More info. me hungry more info :o :P
The more information I get,, the better map in the end result
cool... ;) you can pm or place them here, whatever you so desire.
(after all your work are 1 mile hex too, and fit in easily here ;) )
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm »

Ok this is the 1mph map of Halag:
http://www.inaltreparole.net/francesco/halag.png
and this the 1mph map of the Blight Swamp:
http://www.inaltreparole.net/francesco/ ... 0Swamp.png
If you have questions on the locations let me know.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Sturm wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:54 pm
Ok this is the 1mph map of Halag:
http://www.inaltreparole.net/francesco/halag.png
and this the 1mph map of the Blight Swamp:
http://www.inaltreparole.net/francesco/ ... 0Swamp.png
If you have questions on the locations let me know.
Great maps Sturm, really awesome ;)
Very Useful :geek:

Some questions indeed.
Which hav no haste in answering, so take tour time (still working most on the eastern ansd Northern maps first)


there are many symbols you used, I can't place
; Footprint, Cow, Yellow thing, various Grey figures, lamalike figure, multiple caves symbol, double arched symbol(is this a cave?)

Also some symbols which I doubt have the original meaning; Posthouse, Horse Trading place(from the ethengar map)', the underwater dotted pattern symbol, the pyramids, what do they depict in your map?

Bargle tower and Spider Pyramid have line(s) through the symbol in the Halag map , is this a creek or something else, or is it ruined?
Rock Giants Land; Do you mean Stone Giants, or a group of silicium based mixed lifeforms?

of the towers which are mage towers?
Which areas you think have a magical influence?

The underwater villages are these supposed to have a name, are they ruins? what is their origin (they seem coastal settlements, and I presume after 1750BC survivors, and maybe submerged later.? Or are the underwater race villages still in use?

As most of Karameikos (except The vorloi area and marilenev bay) seem to have a rocky coast, I assume this is the same here?
or is it like the Vorloi/Marelinev more grassy dunes close to the moor?

Is the Vingeff lake at 0 altitude or somewhat higher, as it has no outgoing creek, yet still an ingoing creek. This would seem logical as to the eroded underground as the 1750 disaster made clear, and thus having sea access underground. With an ingoing creek of that length the evaporation would be lower than the increase of water, and thus either gradually cause an overflow (ie create an outgoing creek) or gradually increase in size.??

Some symbols are not placed in a hex , is this on purpose? Or are some locations shifted? as several locations seem very off or on (near) impossible locations otherwise.

You used a lot of bare green hexes, is this wild land, grassy or otherwise? I have several flat features area symbols to choose from in my Legend, which would be best to use for these? I assume graaslands (one or other or clear/unused.

Would you think the trees to the coast not being more evergreen instead of deciduous ? due the climate...similar to the Mediterranean sea, with olives, pine and such a few miles inland?

Do the troglodytes really have real (tough primitive) villages or are they more like camps?

And last but not least. as there are also human villages, and no trail given, would you assume these be minor trails or water routes. No active settlement can exist without at least 1 trail.

As I am unaware of the Type of swamp, (this has to be researched from the canon sources, to give the best description....I don't see the Blight swamp as a Mangrove swamp like the Malpheggi, so would it be a vast grassswamp like Florida, or a bayou like close to St Orleans, or is it different, more like the waddensee (with grass and such).descriptions in the DM screen seem to vary from those of the Gaz/almanacs..So I have to delve again in the Canon to discover this. And the cave descriptions and human Town symbols seem to give a study underground, not all being swamp (also what AC3 seems to relate to)


Maybe some other questions will popup, yet.
This greatly helps in adding more detail to the map
I am still in the collecting info, and measuring phase for West Karameikos
really really useful
:o :geek: :mrgreen: :ugeek:
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Gecko wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:59 am
The screenshot Shawn posted is close to what I see, but not exactly. The circled icon indeed seems to mean “download”, unfortunately I have the three icons before it (without the text), and the first of the three after it, but just a blank section of screen in between. I suspect Robin is seeing the template one gets when logged in, while Shawn and I have the non-logged in version- him on the desktop version, and myself on a mobile version. I’ll have to try pulling it up next time I get on my computer instead of my phone.
Gecko (and any others)
I have received the following respons from Deviantart support
Hi there,

Thanks for the inquiry. We are currently in a beta test of our new site layout codenamed Eclipse. The black screenshot you provided is how some users will see the site during this beta test.

Your account does not appear to be a part of the test but will eventually be ported over to Eclipse as the beta progresses and as we move towards Eclipse as the final version of DeviantArt.

If you would like to join the test early you can join the waiting list from the following page: https://deviantarteclipse.com

Downloads will still work across both versions of the site. Anything you enable for download on the legacy site will be available on Eclipse as well. When you say you're having issues downloading can you please explain exactly what you mean and what you're trying to accomplish?
So, they are indeed changing, and in a Beta stage, yet my account should not be added in it yet. But still seems to do)
Eitherway. Can you exactly explain what your problem is Gecko (mobile/pad/PC/Laptop), and also if it does have differences between these media?

Thanx for any information on this issue. If others experience similar or other problems please give them.
I sure hope we will succeed in resolving this.
(I actually dislike the Black Background, and prefer the limegreen one we have till now instead.)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Thorf »

Robin, great work!

With apologies for not going into detail, I have to say that my own investigations have come to a slightly different conclusion to what you state above about "accuracy". Specifically, while I found that Expert/X1's 24 and 6 mile maps fit together quite well, I have been unable to find a good fit between B10 and Expert/X1. Compounding this, I agree that GAZ1's 8 mile map ignored the previous 6 mile maps, creating more conflict. There's also a misalignment problem between the 8 and 24 scales, which I think also originates in GAZ1.

So to sum up, Expert/X1 doesn't fit with B10, which doesn't fit with GAZ1, which in turn only fits with X1's 24 mile map. Phew!

I actually posted about this relatively recently, I think on Facebook (?), and the response was interesting: basically, the consensus seems to be that GAZ1's map should take precedence. After a lot of thought, I'm inclined to agree, because after all our most detailed view of the world tends to be firmly rooted in the Gazetteers. So it makes a lot of sense to prioritise those sources.

In terms of the Atlas and Let's Map Mystara, new sources take priority as they usually include more detail. The exception is new sources that don't include new details, which often have mistakes and can be easily disregarded. For Let's Map Mystara, new sources obviously replace older versions, as the project is designed to show snapshots of the world at each year of publication. I'm thinking that the Atlas is eventually going to adopt the final model of that project and rebuild from there, so this will apply to the Atlas maps, too.

Which is all to say, my preference would be to take the 8 mile per hex GAZ1 map as a base — as the vast majority of previous fan works have done — and try to work in the lost detail of X1/Expert and B10 on a local scale. So I would take the shapes presented on those maps and use them to provide detail to the shapes of GAZ1, but without invalidating GAZ1's map in the process.

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Gecko »

The issue is that there is no download icon to use to get a closer look at your great maps. I’m on a mobile (iPhone) running 12.4 (16G77) and using Safari. I’ve not had time to try it on my desktop.

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm »

Robin wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 6:10 pm
there are many symbols you used, I can't place
; Footprint, Cow, Yellow thing, various Grey figures, lamalike figure, multiple caves symbol, double arched symbol(is this a cave?)
Wolf footprint is where werecreatures can be encountered. Lama is a wolf, indicates a werewolf den. Double arched is a big cave. Cow is grazing lands for cows and sheep. Yellow is grain fields. Horse shoe is grazing land for horses. Some grey figures are fey and others are harpies.
Also some symbols which I doubt have the original meaning; Posthouse, Horse Trading place(from the ethengar map)', the underwater dotted pattern symbol, the pyramids, what do they depict in your map?
I used posthouse for isolated farms. Horse trading I used for horse grazing place. The dotted pattern is mineral deposits in the underwater maps. Pyramids are ruins from pre-GroF Oltecs or post-Grof Intua or Taymora or other ancient civilizations (before the Traldars i.e. before 1500 BC)
Bargle tower and Spider Pyramid have line(s) through the symbol in the Halag map , is this a creek or something else, or is it ruined?
Rock Giants Land; Do you mean Stone Giants, or a group of silicium based mixed lifeforms?
Yes they are ruined, as the map is set after the fall of the Black Eagle and Bargle's escape. Yes stone giants
of the towers which are mage towers?
Which areas you think have a magical influence?
Bargle's tower and Black Mage Tower (built by one of my old PC). The Tower on the road is a guard post from Black Eagle times. The wizards towers could have magical effects if you want them to :)
The underwater villages are these supposed to have a name, are they ruins? what is their origin (they seem coastal settlements, and I presume after 1750BC survivors, and maybe submerged later.? Or are the underwater race villages still in use?
The ruined ones are Taymoran ruins, while the not-ruined are inhabited by merfolks and some other races (mainly kna, some sea giants, some tritons, a few sea elves).
As most of Karameikos (except The vorloi area and marilenev bay) seem to have a rocky coast, I assume this is the same here?
or is it like the Vorloi/Marelinev more grassy dunes close to the moor?
I've never decided how the coast should be. Maybe mostly rocky, but both small beaches and some vast stretches of beaches could also be present, maybe in the Bligh Swamp and in the south of Halag.
Is the Vingeff lake at 0 altitude or somewhat higher, as it has no outgoing creek, yet still an ingoing creek. This would seem logical as to the eroded underground as the 1750 disaster made clear, and thus having sea access underground. With an ingoing creek of that length the evaporation would be lower than the increase of water, and thus either gradually cause an overflow (ie create an outgoing creek) or gradually increase in size.??
I had no such good knowledge of hydraulics at the time, but I supposed it was in a depression, and could have an outflow underground.
Some symbols are not placed in a hex , is this on purpose? Or are some locations shifted? as several locations seem very off or on (near) impossible locations otherwise.
Probably only some placement mystakes, or point to specific examples.
You used a lot of bare green hexes, is this wild land, grassy or otherwise? I have several flat features area symbols to choose from in my Legend, which would be best to use for these? I assume graaslands (one or other or clear/unused.
All the ones bordering a community or a farm should be cultivated, the other grasslands and bushes.
Would you think the trees to the coast not being more evergreen instead of deciduous ? due the climate...similar to the Mediterranean sea, with olives, pine and such a few miles inland?
Sure but the evergreen symbol is a fir and really gives the wrong idea. A maritime pine symbol maybe should be created.
Do the troglodytes really have real (tough primitive) villages or are they more like camps?
As they are intelligent, they should have villages.
And last but not least. as there are also human villages, and no trail given, would you assume these be minor trails or water routes. No active settlement can exist without at least 1 trail.
In the Halag map I think all the villages have trails, but farm may have such short and small trails that they are not shown on map. In the swamp, seasonal floods, aggressive plants and big monsters makes the maintaining of any persistent trail simply impossible. People move through boats, canoes, rafts or create trails seasonally.
As I am unaware of the Type of swamp, (this has to be researched from the canon sources, to give the best description....I don't see the Blight swamp as a Mangrove swamp like the Malpheggi, so would it be a vast grassswamp like Florida, or a bayou like close to St Orleans, or is it different, more like the waddensee (with grass and such).descriptions in the DM screen seem to vary from those of the Gaz/almanacs..So I have to delve again in the Canon to discover this. And the cave descriptions and human Town symbols seem to give a study underground, not all being swamp (also what AC3 seems to relate to)
As it is relatively small and yet untouched by civilization since centuries, I imagine the Blight Swamp as a very difficult place to cross: a lot of submerged lands, treacherous creeks, lakes, big monsters, mud, quicksands and aggreessive plants. Also I imagine Karameikos mostly as my region in Italy, Liguria, whose woods are really hard to cross. They are not at all like the northern Europe woods: they grow very dense on very steep hills and the underbrush is so thick and treacherous it is nearly impossible to cross it without a trail. Streams are small, but in spring and autumn could be so violent and full of stones to make even a 2 meters ford extremely dangerous. Landslides are common. The swamp should be a bit more flat, but still with some hilly spots creating crevasses and such. As I said before, floods and monsters quickly destroy any trail in the swamp, making it a really nightmare to cross.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Thorf wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:54 am
Robin, great work!

With apologies for not going into detail, I have to say that my own investigations have come to a slightly different conclusion to what you state above about "accuracy". Specifically, while I found that Expert/X1's 24 and 6 mile maps fit together quite well, I have been unable to find a good fit between B10 and Expert/X1. Compounding this, I agree that GAZ1's 8 mile map ignored the previous 6 mile maps, creating more conflict. There's also a misalignment problem between the 8 and 24 scales, which I think also originates in GAZ1.

So to sum up, Expert/X1 doesn't fit with B10, which doesn't fit with GAZ1, which in turn only fits with X1's 24 mile map. Phew!

I actually posted about this relatively recently, I think on Facebook (?), and the response was interesting: basically, the consensus seems to be that GAZ1's map should take precedence. After a lot of thought, I'm inclined to agree, because after all our most detailed view of the world tends to be firmly rooted in the Gazetteers. So it makes a lot of sense to prioritise those sources.

In terms of the Atlas and Let's Map Mystara, new sources take priority as they usually include more detail. The exception is new sources that don't include new details, which often have mistakes and can be easily disregarded. For Let's Map Mystara, new sources obviously replace older versions, as the project is designed to show snapshots of the world at each year of publication. I'm thinking that the Atlas is eventually going to adopt the final model of that project and rebuild from there, so this will apply to the Atlas maps, too.

Which is all to say, my preference would be to take the 8 mile per hex GAZ1 map as a base — as the vast majority of previous fan works have done — and try to work in the lost detail of X1/Expert and B10 on a local scale. So I would take the shapes presented on those maps and use them to provide detail to the shapes of GAZ1, but without invalidating GAZ1's map in the process.
Thanx, for the compliment :mrgreen: AND the reaction ;) . It surely helps me in the thinking processes on this issue. :geek:

As to X1B10...They DO fit really good actually, see to this map overlay
Image
There are some overlap issues here and there. I totally agree.
Yet most of these fall into reason due the hex scale in which variations are possible.
Especially taken into account that Geoff Wingate, the artist of B10, was not content with the hex shapes of the region, (desiring a more 'realistic' version of the region) used a simple overlay sheet on the X1 map, followed the lines of the mountains and such of X1, enlarged this and from that created the B10 map. (I got this from a published interview with him, and a picture of his work conditions on that map...yes...I went a bit CSI here :cool: :ugeek: :cool: )
He found existing rpg maps diagrammatic and abstract so he wanted to draw a more pictorial illustrated map... more fun, more expressive but still scaled and accurate... he is proud of those maps and pleased players enjoyed them.(his words)

My personal opinion is that all of the B10 nw of the general line of the Mountain border between Darokin/Karameikos should have to be shifted 1 hex up. I assume that Geof accidently shifted his map a bit while making his overlay. the rest seems a perfect fit within hex varaity limitatons, only the NW corner of the map seems a bit off.

And the few locations falling beyond the hex scale variation limit(6 to 3), are readjusted in the end. This is visible in my map on the Zargash mountain east going south, where I extended the B10, following X1 and the 2300BC maps. Similarly the greatest flaw on the west of the map, you will see a black encircled mountain hex, to resolve the conflict there, which will become added to the region on the west map when working on there, still mostly conforming to the X1.
Geoff Wingate also did lower the Lost Valley a bit to the south, why I am unsure, yet I assume it did feel better there. (also the X1 had an opening on the valley in the east, which B10 does not, So I assume, this was more in line with the description "lost Valley" , as with an open end, it would not really be lost, but easily found. So that might be the reason.

As wth the 8 mile hex change artists Dennis Ron Kauth and David C. Sutherland III, they not only worked together on the same map (thus conflicting /adjusting each others work) but used a digital general freehand drawing of the x1 map, hence the many mistakes of contours (PC's work those days wasn't as precise as today :twisted: ). The hex size further muddled up the details of areas. Mountains with valleys became large mountain barriers, losing all of the wonderful valley detail of X1. Together with the weird habit of using rivers following hex lines, everything indeed became shifted and warped.
As by your earler saying; 'The oldest most precise source is the best. Especially now knowing HOW the later maps were created (i really dug deep into this), I can only agree that the sloppiness/easiness made a similar yet different map. In the case of the X1 6mile hex region, this is indeed the X1 map.
As the Gazeteers are indeed mostly used I am also using those sources as a base. Yet the loss of detail and the many major conflicts between X1 and Gaz1 was to great to ignore, and forces me to return to the oldest most detailed source (as you said and in biology is also used).
Luckily this transition to X1 as base does not actually pose any major problems, which can't be resolved.

In the research I was aghast as to the many changes. Ok hex size shift of the Gaz1 map beside, I can not respect the rivers following the hex lines, and hence totally change the region (especially visible around Kelvin, where a 3 merger river became two 2 merger rivers). and the rivers also shifted over 10 miles in either direction. And then the coastline differences. Something, which had some detailed charm, became more clodlike. The great Gaz maps are still a beauty, and also to the many wonderful fanon maps, based on the the gaz maps, yet these only further increase the initial flaws. (as can be seen in this overlap)

I do agree the Gaz maps take mostly precedence. as the 24 mile maps fit mostly good with the gaz map, which gaz giving more detail. Yet the 5shires, Karameikos, and west thyatis fall under the X1 6 mile hexes, which give way more detail in those conditions, without too much of the shifts and changes Gaz map brought forth. Hence I use the X1 maps as a base.
To resolve the conflict I intend to create a Fanvariant map additional to this with the Threshold region placed more east, and some other information which (not conform the canon adventure's suggestion placing it NE instead the suggested NW) of B8. .just out of the fact most gamers used those maps. So it is up to the gamers which they will use in the end.

I do have to merge the Gaz map edges beyond X1 with the X1 edges, and especially with the coast this is tricky. As here the major flaws are made.
I think tomorrow I will have resolved this on the Karameikos east region (working on it as we speak).

The greatest trick/difficulty in my work lies in adding the canon and fanon of literally all sources together while trying to stay as consistent to all the sources as best as possible. And as basing the map on the oldest sources, sometimes some things will shift slightly, especially in the case of the fan maps....eventually all flaws will be corrected making a fluid map of the region in 1 mile. :halo:

I hope this explanation will help understanding my decisions on conflicting areas. :shock:
Last edited by Robin on Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by stanles »

Sturm wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:54 pm
Ok this is the 1mph map of Halag:
http://www.inaltreparole.net/francesco/halag.png
and this the 1mph map of the Blight Swamp:
http://www.inaltreparole.net/francesco/ ... 0Swamp.png
If you have questions on the locations let me know.
and for the Vaults? ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm »

Sure you can take them for the Vaults too!
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Sturm wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:08 am
Wolf footprint is where werecreatures can be encountered. Lama is a wolf, indicates a werewolf den. Double arched is a big cave. Cow is grazing lands for cows and sheep. Yellow is grain fields. Horse shoe is grazing land for horses. Some grey figures are fey and others are harpies.
Hmm. have to ponder on the creature symbols. The various farm areas I have hexes for, although I do not differentiate by animal. Maybe they also sell animals there then I keep the horshoe.
As to the caves I will use the standard cave symbol (the name could imply some size/importance.
used posthouse for isolated farms. Horse trading I used for horse grazing place. The dotted pattern is mineral deposits in the underwater maps. Pyramids are ruins from pre-GroF Oltecs or post-Grof Intua or Taymora or other ancient civilizations (before the Traldars i.e. before 1500 BC)
Yes they are ruined, as the map is set after the fall of the Black Eagle and Bargle's escape. Yes stone giants
Ah thanx. that helps. As then the nearby cave would/could be canon Stone giant hatching caves as per AC10-Bestiary of Dragons and Giants, and require a pink dot. thanx
Bargle's tower and Black Mage Tower (built by one of my old PC). The Tower on the road is a guard post from Black Eagle times. The wizards towers could have magical effects if you want them to :)
I intent to use the standard pink tower for wizard towers. implicating magic available there. If your towers have active effects interesting enough, I will place these accordingly.
The ruined ones are Taymoran ruins, while the not-ruined are inhabited by merfolks and some other races (mainly kna, some sea giants, some tritons, a few sea elves
As they are intelligent, they should have villages.
Any names? Or can I create some myself?
I've never decided how the coast should be. Maybe mostly rocky, but both small beaches and some vast stretches of beaches could also be present, maybe in the Bligh Swamp and in the south of Halag.
I had no such good knowledge of hydraulics at the time, but I supposed it was in a depression, and could have an outflow underground
All the ones bordering a community or a farm should be cultivated, the other grasslands and bushes.
Great I can work with this
Probably only some placement mystakes, or point to specific examples.
The Swamp map left for example ; a village placed on three hexes, and here and there some seemingly misplacements. This make placing bthem sometimes hard
Sure but the evergreen symbol is a fir and really gives the wrong idea. A maritime pine symbol maybe should be created.

Hmm I agree. I ponder on this. in the meantime the standard symbol can be used, to be replaced later.
In the Halag map I think all the villages have trails, but farm may have such short and small trails that they are not shown on map. In the swamp, seasonal floods, aggressive plants and big monsters makes the maintaining of any persistent trail simply impossible. People move through boats, canoes, rafts or create trails seasonally.

Ok I can work with this using minor and normal trails. and trail remnants in the swamp where possible.
As it is relatively small and yet untouched by civilization since centuries, I imagine the Blight Swamp as a very difficult place to cross: a lot of submerged lands, treacherous creeks, lakes, big monsters, mud, quicksands and aggreessive plants. Also I imagine Karameikos mostly as my region in Italy, Liguria, whose woods are really hard to cross. They are not at all like the northern Europe woods: they grow very dense on very steep hills and the underbrush is so thick and treacherous it is nearly impossible to cross it without a trail. Streams are small, but in spring and autumn could be so violent and full of stones to make even a 2 meters ford extremely dangerous. Landslides are common. The swamp should be a bit more flat, but still with some hilly spots creating crevasses and such. As I said before, floods and monsters quickly destroy any trail in the swamp, making it a really nightmare to cross.
I haven't checked Gaz1/KKoM on this yet, I am interested in the general appearance. Your assumption of low hills, mud spot, mudflats, and many creeks, and inundation zones, already gives me some ideas. I be back on this soon

Liguria, nice region, never been there although I was close once (milan and environment). I imagined central Italy, and Greece more like Karameikos, so we have similarities. I can use this Liguria information to good help. Especially after placing the 2300BC cliff (eroded further of course) in the Vorloi region, where this is of good use. As of now Vorloi seems to be build on the erosion displacement of the rocky cliff of 2300BC, caused by the early Volaga River and later by the sea. Some interesting things could be buried underneath these rocky sediments.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin »

Karameikos

worked on the readjusted coastlines. They now almost seem correct, and have the original feel of X1, while maintaining the Gazetteer and TM maps of 8 miles hexes.
Some discrepancies remain in the region near Kerosinos. I will revise this the upcoming days, as that is a tricky region using several sources canon and fanon, and the intent is to enable a clean merge with the Gazeteer/TM maps where the X1 map end...thus far it seems to blend good (the unlabbeled area of Thyatis as it is currently on the map.
Image
Now also working to add the 2300BC geological information of the eroded cliff, as the geological differences greatly improve the region.
following the discussion with Chimpman on his 2300BC map topic
Image

Please Any input on the 2300BC cliff is welcome.
As both Sturm (see above) and Chimpman (see topic Link) have an interesting point and usage here, yet geology and erosion are still facts to work on. tricky facts, yet still visible on 1 mile hex maps ...I am as of yet still unaware how much of it would remain ...
Last edited by Robin on Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm »

Robin wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:57 pm
The ruined ones are Taymoran ruins, while the not-ruined are inhabited by merfolks and some other races (mainly kna, some sea giants, some tritons, a few sea elves
As they are intelligent, they should have villages.
Any names? Or can I create some myself?
No names, you can create them if you want.
Probably only some placement mystakes, or point to specific examples.
The Swamp map left for example ; a village placed on three hexes, and here and there some seemingly misplacements. This make placing bthem sometimes hard
Yes I see that I wanted them to be where they are, but place them on a hex if you prefer.
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