1 Mile Hex Mapping

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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:55 am

Sturm wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:11 am
The Town was later in Karameikos Kingdom of Adventure described as a place named Krondsfield, see here viewtopic.php?t=2573 and as such I placed it in my map.
Thanx great info again... as always ;) .
Yet if Krondsfield is "The Town", its location is totally off in your 3.2 mile hex map from the FQ descriptions detailing the location; being only a day walk travel to Mount Dread, and as Mount dread is 16 miles west of Mount Pavel, it should be placed somewhere close to the Mount Dread instead. While you placed it on the Shutterga midway of Kelvin/Penhaligon, which is (very) much further away.
This means following all the canon Krondsfield/The Town should be located more like I suggested above. ...in a valley close to Mount Dread with the Old Castle of Demare within 16 miles, and mount Dread also closeby following the (i agree very) faint location descriptions.
And the location you placed should be renamed or removed. (i prefer renaming :mrgreen: )

It is logical even in the sense of the FQ mentioned attack on Krondsfield/The Town in the beginning of the Mount dread Adventure...these humanoids would logically attack only the first location(s) closeby (aka Krondsfield/The town) and not pass by other locations inbetween, which are many as you compiled in your map.
Even this thus suggests I have to relocate it.

Looking in detail to your map I would Place Krondsfield/The Town 1 or 2 hexes Northeast of your placement of Khurest Hurgon along the Achelos river, or in the Hex south of it. This feels best to the given FQ hints as well as to your map.
Would you agree?
Sturm wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:11 am
The Jeff Easley illustration was as usual a piece TSR recycled from another product which had nothing to do with Mystara so there is really no point in trying to place it anywhere.
I actually also agree with your opinion on this 'improper recycling'. Yet my intent was to show the given resemblances (which even the TSR crew working on FQ should have noticed)
As I tried to place a location of "The Town" this was just coming forth as an option, which I deemed worthy to present.


PS. Somewhere this week I PM you with a text link to all the locations on your map. As spoken earlier I hope you can/want to add your information to it.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:32 pm

I believe my placement of Krondsfield came from a discussion with others on the Piazza but I cannot find it anymore. Anyway the Achelos valley is wilderness area inhabited by giants and ogres so a settlement there would not make much sense for me. I just do not see Demara's Castle and Harrow Hill as being in such a remote location. But it's your map so place it where you like. Krondsfield/The Town was just an example and has not any connection to other canon products anyway.
BTW the relative placement of the Town and Mt Dread does not make much sense, as one day travel from it would probably be in the Valley of Hutaaka (https://i0.wp.com/mystara.thorfmaps.com ... os-8-1.png) as does not make sense either someone would want to clear such a remote location on behalf of colonization effort by the Duke but canon modules never had much congruence anyway.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:53 pm

Sturm wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:32 pm
I believe my placement of Krondsfield came from a discussion with others on the Piazza but I cannot find it anymore. Anyway the Achelos valley is wilderness area inhabited by giants and ogres so a settlement there would not make much sense for me. I just do not see Demara's Castle and Harrow Hill as being in such a remote location. But it's your map so place it where you like. Krondsfield/The Town was just an example and has not any connection to other canon products anyway.
BTW the relative placement of the Town and Mt Dread does not make much sense, as one day travel from it would probably be in the Valley of Hutaaka (https://i0.wp.com/mystara.thorfmaps.com ... os-8-1.png) as does not make sense either someone would want to clear such a remote location on behalf of colonization effort by the Duke but canon modules never had much congruence anyway.
The problem with the map you give is that the text of the mountains and the lost valley are not consistent (they vary over the various maps. The X1/B10 gave a detailed location of the Lost Valley, and B10 even drew Mount Pavel (without labelling it) south of the most western part of the ost Valley/west of the most northern part of the Foamfire valley.
in this overlay of B10/X1 you can see the Darokin/Karameikan border in a waving hex shape; as now here given following KkoA, Mount Pavel is on the east low corner south of the lost Valley, and the Mount Dread would then be between the two western border corners. which seems logical as mountains are easily used to determine borders.
As also trying to follow the KKoA map in the location of the mountains which was the first canon to place both mountains (Dread & Pavel) Placing Dread just west of the achelos Valkey, and Pavel South of the Lost Valley/west of Foamfire Valley.

I agree the canon suggested location on the (original owne by Guther a mage) Manor, Demara's Castle and the ruins does not seem to make sense (as more of this set is doubtful; for example dark elves? I would replace these with Shadow Elves spies), yet my intent is to stay close as possible to the canon of it. (even if I myself would not really like/agree to it). and then trying to add the fanon accordingly with all respect.

Following the KkoA map of the mountains the Town/Krondsfield would be west of the lost valley, east of Mount Dread, and then a solution (using the X1 map) is a mountain pass/valley. This would give some credence to the locations give being here, and also the FQ suggested
defensive support of the ruler of Karameikos
..as to defend the pass, as he did on more locations.
I am unsure of it as of yet, but it seems to be a valley with a small nort/south side and a wider middle. Connected to the south by the early creeks of the Achelos River. The Demara castle/ruin then could be placed in the south as a defense, while the Mage's manor and "The Town'/Krondsfield own could be in the valley. The structures of the mage(lich?) Azzazel on Mount Dread are then close enough. The valley being reasonably secluded could also be an explanation for the Hammership to land there...as they would then not being so point-blank openly revealed, while still enabling them to repair the vessel by using the population. And being a valley would be a reason for the humanoids/giants not to venture further (although their presence would also explain the Demara Castle and the manor being ruined, the Town being so defensive, and the Azzazel dungeon so stocked.
The town would then be 1 day north of the Demara Castle, and the valley could continue to be a pass leading into Darokin (like the passes vaguely suggested on B10 map and detailed on the various fanon maps) ending east of Fort Cruth ...This would be logical and would also explain why Fort Cruth was placed here...just by being the defence of the valley from the Darokin side.

Eventually a road could even be created through here for a better connection between the two nations.
The Town/Krondsfield would be karameikan border village of this valley
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:25 pm

Ok the overlapping issues to the Main Karameikos are too confusing without a reference.
Thus 'forced' to begin with the Karameikos western half,

17-09-19 1st draft
Image
Basic fitting the western edge of the Main Karameikos map to the X1, on the right scale. By doing this I had to use the overlap of B10/X1, for a proper fit, and then cut/pasted the western edge of the Main Karameikos map to this one. Then beginning with hexing and the first major hex fillup in the mountains. Later more.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:16 pm

Karameikos West
23-09-19 2nd draft
Been sick so could not do much. So I began entering Sturm's map into mine.
There are some things needing to be changed, also to befit the canon X1 map more( as especially the River is off in reflection to the X1 course of the river , yet also to enable other fanon sources to be used. The edges of the Blight Swamp seem a bit too straight, so this will change too.

There is some placement differences in the northeast of Sturm's map and in the east towards Kelvin. These do not seem to fit either the 8 mile hex map of Gaz1/TM2, or the X1 map. Yet this can be resolved without too much troubles...as seen thusfar. I marked these by a red triangle .

As this map is small in width, I amm inclined to add the northern section of the mountains to it, and just pick the southern edge of my Canolbarth map with it, to enanble using all maps combined. I am a bit afraid I am finding conflicting areas and have to redo even that Canolbarth map, just to make it fit. Did I already say that I never want to work without a master hexgrid anymore? In the canolbarth map I dis, and especially against bthe edges of the map I see shiting hexes not being in line. So, my fear of the Canolbarth being needing a readjustment on the edges might seem to be right. Unsure as of yet, yet fearing the worst.

Image

More on this Later.
My first try is adding Sturm's Halag map to this one.

As before any ideas, suggestions, remarks, comments are welcome.
I thrive on these.
Last edited by Robin on Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:29 pm

Karameikos West
24-09-19 3rd draft
Added Sturm's 1 mile hex map of Halag delicatly sizing to get the same size, and then placing.
Like the Blight swamp map, some location flaws in the east (Luln is placed too far west, as seen to the Gaz1 & X1 maps) and with that some displacement errors, As due this I broke away those sections to be placed more east later and add a Gaz1/X1 suitable solution in the middle. This way I can keep the good parts even if they are somewhat displaced in locations vs canon sources.
The difference of SDturm's otherwise excellent maop to the Gaz1 & X1 canon sources is minimal, yet some alterations to Sturms Halag map must be made; being placing hills in the east part, shifting Luln east, and lowering the coast somewhat south to conform the X1 map (about 1 or 4 mile shift at worst.)

There are some differences in the overlapping areas of both Sturm's maps, which I have to ask, what takes precedence.

There are some Gaz1 vs x1 contradictions on the rivers (gaz 1 follows the hex lines while X1 did not.) which i see. and try to clarify in the next draft. Until now I just placed the X1 Achelos River through the swamp, and the difference is clear. Not sure how to resolve this yet. something for later care.

As there are two different fanon maps of the Blight Swamp. I will try to merge these into one with the X1 and Gaz1 canon. more on this later.

Began hexing the Achelos/Riverfork Woods. And also begun adding Hills and mountain hexing as per X1. Details will be added/created later. This is just general hexing.

The locations of Mount Dread and Mount Pavel are now clear, although detailing has to be done still.

Image

@ Sturm; As said there are some differences in the overlapping areas of both your Halag and Blight Swamp maps. I presume the extra additions are taking precedence, yet if this is not the case, could you inform me?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:16 pm

As a part on your reaction was on my 1 mile hex maps...I relocated that part here.
vinimagus wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:50 pm
Robin wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:57 pm
vinimagus wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:21 pm
Thanks for the feedback, Robin.
...
On the location note, we're discussing the idea of the place at Radlebb Woods is just an entry point for another plane. You're bringing more flavour (and depth) to that. Thank you!
...
...
As to the location in the Radlebb; I would use my 1 mile hexmap of all the combined information yet it is far from ready as of yet.
I really like that that work. I was amazed by what I saw following that link. Hats off. Karameikos is my favourite setting (even though I have taken my players to others, even to the HW), and you are doing such a tremendous job! Thanks!

I always try to come up with what is between one village and the other, or how one climate or vegetation type blends into another, but now that I see your work, I'll be using it so much!

It must have taken you reading lots of text and studying lots of maps to get to this point - even though you call it far from ready. Wow!
...
By reading this post of yours, I did some research on Sturm's and Bruce Heard's take on "who's who among dragons" and was astonished.

It as if there are four - not three* "layers" of existence and how to divide territory, power, followers. Mind-blowing. I had never studied dragons from that point of view. Thanks!

What do you think?

All the best,
Thanx for the compliments. For me it is mainy the combined compilation of all canon and fanon information combined with how reality works, imagined in my brain as another reality. My mapping and writing, helps in relaying all that I found there.
Yet I could have never done this, with any of my work without the mostly insprining, sometimes outstanding, and sometimes confusing/conflicting canon and fanon information.
I therefor always say I love all the work of others, and the input they give me in my work. My best contact has been Micky with his works on Glantri yet as he is no longer among those of this community (unknown otherwise) I not only miss him, yet alsom made more use of the contaxct with all other fans/creators on this forum. Our combined imagination truly makes wonders. and I can only hope my works help in combining these.

Yes I have read all canon and much fanon works on Mystara (which is a lot, a heck of a lot), adding this to the study materials I have in RL, the communications here, and the fresh imagination of all of you. I D&D game already since august 1978, and collected all material I could lay my hand on, ffilling my 9 meter long 2 meter high bookcase, with books, magazines, studymaterial, figures, dioramas, and smurfs(sorry i collect smurfs ;) )

Mystara has, due all the immensly intelligent and knowledgeable authors, so much layers...time, thought, chance, creation, chaos,...all combined into one. Bruce Heard was my initial inspiration (and still is a major influence, just like Thorf, Sturm, and many others.
In my Alfheim Map (and elsewhere too) you will discover creaks/streams and other locations memorizing my honor to them by naming these to them.

As to your work I love the enthusiasm you generate in your creation, and do absolutely enjoy you willing to use my (compiled) material within it, and this works both ways; what you create I try to enter as good as possible within the map (or other works).
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:16 pm

Karameikos west

Ok the following is the 6 mile hex X1, and the Gaz 1 8 mile hex courses of river.
This was a tricky merging. I use Luln and Halag and Wereskalot as focus points
Clearly some discrepancies can be seen in the rivers.
Not only in the course and merging of the rivers, also its sources.
Image

From left to right(west to east)
the Cruth River+ Source Myskmyr Falls is further up north being the Shire-karameikos border oveer a long stretch. The X1 give solutions to the source being 3 mountain tops on either side (with chance of lots of ice-snow) and a lake could be the main source. It also complements the assumed caves given in Gaz 1 and Gaz Shires where the orcs live.
Difficulty; lies in implementing the high road/trail from Sturm's history maps on the mountain tops
Gaz1 8 mile followed the hex lines andd therefor is mishapen, the river is above the Achelos woods to far north, with a weird knick before merging with the Magos.
Solution Follow the X1 course,
Difficulty; Relocation of several locations from Sturm's 3.2 mile map

Magos River; X1 laid the source on the almost other side of the mountain chain, then cutting through a mountain south. the course is similar to X1 although that has a more fluid course.
The merging with the Cruth River is several miles more south.
Solution; placing the source of the river on the right side of the mountain(south) , I think I will keep it going through the mountain,
Difficulty; I am unsure if this is a small valley, a caved in mounaintain section, or an underground river section. Eitherway (I will decide on this later trying to follow all canob. the valley touched by the river, would also have streams, which are deemed best to meet south of the passage through the mountain.

Gustos River; most of the Gaz1 course is reasonably equal to X1. some minor relocations of locations are needed as the river follows the hex course of Gaz1 and being more fluid as per X1. The valley is very good for a combination of streams to give its source

Achelos River; This river has as per Gaz1 more weird bends and twists, yet the source and main course is reasonably similar to X1
the merging with the Maagos and the Gustos is however a threefold joining as per X1 and not as per gaz1 as two twofold joinings.
Difficulty. to correctly move the joinings together again wand minor relocation of locations
Below the merging of the rivers the Achelos goes south into the Blight Swamp. As already placed the X1 course the difference of the Gaz1 course becomes clear. However, the area gives enough oppurtunities to allow both solutions to be used. The Fanon maps of the Blight swamp and canon and fanon texts describe a watery mess where changes are all over.
Difficulty. The Gaz1 version I will make a secondary stream split of somewhat south of the merging. the main stream will be as per x1. the secondary stream will be less wide , yet still important. I studied all wonderful fanon maps of the region; Sturm's and Irving Galvez and Religon and mine older one and will try to merge these into one.
As Sturm mostly follows canon, I will use this one as a base, and add the variations on these.

Overal; As B8 The Rock adventure actually was suggested to be placed in this region northwest of Threshold(according to the description inside) instead east of Threshold. the rivers of that adventure can be the upper rivers of the Gustos or Achelos.
Difficulty;The exact location has to be determined not to cross other canon or even fanon sources.

Any suggestions are absolutely welcome.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:30 am

IMO X1 should be discarded in this case as is the older source and later fan maps as the 3.2 mph one by Agathokles which I used to put communities used the rivers courses as per Gaz1 and TM1.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:14 am

Sturm wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:30 am
IMO X1 should be discarded in this case as is the older source and later fan maps as the 3.2 mph one by Agathokles which I used to put communities used the rivers courses as per Gaz1 and TM1.
I understand your opinion; my research on these, due this map overlay, gave much more detail in the end, and although much puzzling has to be done, in the end it will fit all sources as best, wile still following these sources....at least I try
The greatest flaw of Gaz12/TM2 lays in the rivers following the hex shape,...which is absolutely a mistake. I understand the artist, (it is easier to do), yet it not only is illogical, it also is impracticalin the end.
Luckily the differences are mostly minor, and resolvable....locations shifts are mostly limited...and hence will mostly fit within the parameters of the 3.2 and 8 mile hex maps. The increasing of the size to 1 mile hex , will enable the 8 mile hexshape to begone, and follow the X1 courses, while still mostly fitting in the Gaz/TM2 abnd 3.2 maps

The main difference, is in X1 there is a flat area between the woods and the hills, which in Gaz1 are hills. I will follow that gaz1 routine, with some flat areas in between as x1--a sort of hill valleys. this will also give all the minor locations more reason/logic to be there. they then will have more farmland areas.

The shifting of locations, as far as I have checked, is minor (a few miles at worst) except the lower end of the Cruth and its upper end , and the gustos its lower end.
The upper end cruth as X1 is the border of the shires/karameikos, and the Myskmyr falls also.
The lower end cruth as x1 is more south making it an almost 3 fork river ---in 1 mile detail there is some distance which I will use to enable the various sources to fit.
The lower end Gustos as X1 shifts a bit west. The upper is 8 mile hexshaped and its actual course should be as X1
The Magos is almost equal between X1/Gaz, and the minor shifts are unnoticeable
The other river conflicts are based on the 8 mile hex shapes followed and easily fixed. I will try to make some of the patterns of gaz1 rivers within the X1 course . (some of the conflicts i can use to create former river beds (as they have shifted over ages.) which give more detail to the final map.

The most frustrating conflict for me is the top of the Magos, which seems to be off in all maps, especially X1. I have to ponder how to resolve this at best within the canon frame. I have to add the northern section to the map to clarify this.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:25 pm

Karameikos West

30-09-19 5th draft
Ok back to the version without the overlay.
Began filling in more of Sturm's Halag and Blight Swamp hexes, to make all hex symbols similar.
This is more tedious than difficult. Yet it also relaxes.
Pondering on the flow systems in the Blight swamp. There are highergrounds on the northern and eastern side, and somewhat on the west. The main river comes from the north. as it is a reasonably level area, the water, tries to continue its main direction which in this case is south-southeast-southwest. there are several creeks and streams from the higher grounds around adding to this pattern. In total this gives (after some experimentation in the shower with flour :ugeek: :o :mrgreen: ) a pattern of currents going south dominantly (especially in the north)and SW secondly(especially in the East), with some minor attributes going SW. The most southern part would all vary between S, with SE and SW variations, and SW with south variations in the east. The direction of flow in the west of the south would mostly go south.
There are interesting currents when the swamp/river meet the sea. the main sea current as canon going towards the east long the coast. this will make the most norther part of coast towards the swamp a muddy greenish/brown teint loosing all translucency. The middle section from Harbborlee Rock would be crystal clear however, as the western side.
This will be interesting fRoagrad, and coloring the now clear water a teint of green till Vandevicsny after that differences with the sea water are minimal.

Image
All in all the undeep coast Sturm created will be full with organic material (and hence drawing life, to feed upon), yet the water will be brown-green and vision in or underwater will be less than 5 feet like in this picture where the left is the eastern coast, and the right is the western and middle area of the Halag Bay. Any sentient life there will either hunt elsewhere or adapt. :geek:
@ Sturm; What were your ideas on these creatures (race etc) here??, as this makes them being there interesting, especially hiding all they have below from eyes above
Image
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:30 am

I think the coast near Halag should be inhabited mainly by merrows, with occasional members of other sea races as acquatic elves, tritons, kna and sea giants. The merrows could be allies of the halfling against the Black Eagle, but it is possible the Black Eagle has obtained the help of some sea monsters or weresharks. Wereseals could also be present in the region.
The ruined towns are ancient Taymoran ruins, while the ones not ruined are current merrow villages.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:16 am

Sturm wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:30 am
I think the coast near Halag should be inhabited mainly by merrows, with occasional members of other sea races as acquatic elves, tritons, kna and sea giants. The merrows could be allies of the halfling against the Black Eagle, but it is possible the Black Eagle has obtained the help of some sea monsters or weresharks. Wereseals could also be present in the region.
The ruined towns are ancient Taymoran ruins, while the ones not ruined are current merrow villages.
Perfect
I can work with this

Another question. On your map you place a pyaramid and a village just north of the Village Hendrick and above that two swamp coloured trees .
Should these trees be swamp, or swamptrees like the ones above that. And as the pyramid and the village are halfway on hex, should they both be on these tree hexes, below these or 1 hex up (where the pyrami is the only one on these tree hexes?.
Further on the Halag map Kendricks is a ruin(and does not show the two locations I mentioned above), while on the Blightmap an active village. ..which is it.
is this also the reason the unanamed village is so close? or is this a lizardmen village?
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Sturm
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:40 pm

It is supposed to be an area of big and thick trees, but still mostly wet. The pyramid should be at the border of the forest, the village one mile south east of it. Mokrath village and the Temple of Micatl are described in Irving Galvez Blight Swamp Compilation: http://pandius.com/blight_swamp_compilation.pdf
Hendriks and Ludwigia instead were village founded by Baron Von Hendriks in his attempt to colonize the swamp, before 990 AC. The Blight swamp map is 1000 Ac and earlier so the village is still active, while by the time of the Halag map, after the fall of the Black Eagle, Hendriks is abandoned and Ludwigia has been completely destroyed by the halfling. The inhabitants of both were mostly Iron Ring thugs and conscripted Traladaran so they were forced to or happy to leave once the Baron fell. After 985 AC the Baron had a working alliance with the lizardmen of Mokrath, supplying them weapons and magic. The lizard men of Hakra too are his allies as per The Dragon's Den box and the Trog camp near the Iron Ring camp is populated by troglodytes mercenaries in service of the Iron Ring.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:55 pm

Thanx Sturm.
Two sorts of trees were used. 3 Moor trees, and 2 swamp trees south. so the pyramid will be in the swamp trees most south(linear with the moor trees), or just south of it against the Hendricks hex, or on the hex south of the henge? and the village of the Mokrath about where it is between The Mound & Hendricks 1 hex east.

Great Info. I will add this to the pile of locations information.

The Dragon Den's box is clearly speaking about Mystara/Karameikos indeed, although other designations were used. Would that mean all these modules have a place on the Mystara/Karameikos map? If so where about would that be?

You used Henges hex symbols on several locations (The Mound, Grisbaldos Grave, against Rock Giant Lands, Trinkla's Tomb), yet Irvings text gave several of these being a grave or tomb, and others are unknown. A henge requires stabile ground, as most menhirs would, otherwise their durability would be less than a few decades, before sinking or toppling would happen. Tombs and caves also require some stabile (somewhat) dry ground. I have a tomb symbol, and can easily use a unused ground hex underneath location truly needing a stabile underground.
yet I presume You might use these hex symbols to designate something different(like Grisbaldos Grave). so to make all these reflect the locations best as possible, I try to find the information in Irvings material, yet those you created, could you inform me about what is what?

Last question; you used a light blue water color, possibly to designate the depth of water, yet the villages underwater simulate the water being at least as deep as the height of water at lowtide, or even deeper. Would it be right to assume our light water is to 30'depth, to 100' depth or a variation thereoff? I have used in my Dymrak map these depth drawn from the canon sources, so I prefer to follow these further. Other depths I used there are to 200'depth, to 300'depth, over 300'depth. Could you inform me about this?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:58 pm

Karameikos West

03-10-19 6th draft
as the top area is reasonably small. i added it to this map instead making another.
I added the X1 top, overlaid the overlapping section of the Alfheim map
, and was shocked, although I did expect it. due my non-hexgrid mapping of that map, everything is shifting. also there are major differences (and a few blatant mistakes of me :oops: :shock:, sorry ) between that map, as it was based on TM2/Gaz 8 mike hexing and not on X1.
The red lines help me determining what must be changed. this will be a pain in the butt to change, add, restore to fit the oldest canon, while still maintaining the integrity of the later canon and fanon sources.
The hex-shifting will be the largest issue to tackle, though. especially as my intend is to later add these changes to the Alfheim map, and enable them to be fitting together as if one.
To do all this I had placed X1 overlap, added Alfheim map section, and now Ihave to place the hex-grid, to get a solid frame to work on.
Image
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:50 pm

Robin wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 1:55 pm
The Dragon Den's box is clearly speaking about Mystara/Karameikos indeed, although other designations were used. Would that mean all these modules have a place on the Mystara/Karameikos map? If so where about would that be?
The Dragon's Den would take place in the location named Hakra only for the black dragon adventure, Wild Dragon Den. The one with the green dragon, Wyrmhaven should be located in the southern part of the Riverfork woods, looking at the map. And the one with the red dragon, League of the Red Serpent, should be instead probably near the source of the Achelos river in the foothills of the Black Mountains.
You used Henges hex symbols on several locations (The Mound, Grisbaldos Grave, against Rock Giant Lands, Trinkla's Tomb), yet Irvings text gave several of these being a grave or tomb, and others are unknown. A henge requires stabile ground, as most menhirs would, otherwise their durability would be less than a few decades, before sinking or toppling would happen. Tombs and caves also require some stabile (somewhat) dry ground. I have a tomb symbol, and can easily use a unused ground hex underneath location truly needing a stabile underground.
I used the symbol just to indicate special unique locations each different from the other. In Rock giants land should be a series of caves and stonework inhabited by the giants. Trinkla's tomb should be an old Azcan pyramid. Others are mounds or circles of stones where fairies dwell.
Last question; you used a light blue water color, possibly to designate the depth of water, yet the villages underwater simulate the water being at least as deep as the height of water at lowtide, or even deeper. Would it be right to assume our light water is to 30'depth, to 100' depth or a variation thereoff? I have used in my Dymrak map these depth drawn from the canon sources, so I prefer to follow these further. Other depths I used there are to 200'depth, to 300'depth, over 300'depth. Could you inform me about this?
I think the Undersea map has not specific dephts of the lighter colours (http://pandius.com/pc3-sea-of-dread-sub ... ands-8.png) before the Abyss is indicated 20,000 ft then 10,000, then 1,000 then there are five more colour dephts. They could be 500, 400, 300, 200 and 100 feet. Most of the Sunlit Sea communities are in the 200 feet level with only a few in the 100 feet level. My dark colour would be the 100 feet level, while my light colour would be a max 50 feet level. I imagine the coast to go down quickly a few meters from the shore but the underwater villages in the light area should be about 12-16 meters deep and probably hidden in reefs/corals/algae to be non detectable from the surface.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:28 pm

Sturm wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:50 pm
The Dragon's Den would take place in the location named Hakra only for the black dragon adventure, Wild Dragon Den. The one with the green dragon, Wyrmhaven should be located in the southern part of the Riverfork woods, looking at the map. And the one with the red dragon, League of the Red Serpent, should be instead probably near the source of the Achelos river in the foothills of the Black Mountains.
Thanx. Now I can place these on the map and/or text.
Sturm wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:50 pm
I used the symbol just to indicate special unique locations each different from the other. In Rock giants land should be a series of caves and stonework inhabited by the giants. Trinkla's tomb should be an old Azcan pyramid. Others are mounds or circles of stones where fairies dwell.
Ah this helps. I have some variation in hexes. Trinkla will be a oyramid, the one close to the rockgiants will be a cave with rock formation, and Grisbaldos grave a tomb. I think the Henge you called the Mound should also be a tomb, and even on dryer land---as its denomination suggests
Sturm wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:50 pm
I think the Undersea map has not specific dephts of the lighter colours (http://pandius.com/pc3-sea-of-dread-sub ... ands-8.png) before the Abyss is indicated 20,000 ft then 10,000, then 1,000 then there are five more colour dephts. They could be 500, 400, 300, 200 and 100 feet. Most of the Sunlit Sea communities are in the 200 feet level with only a few in the 100 feet level. My dark colour would be the 100 feet level, while my light colour would be a max 50 feet level. I imagine the coast to go down quickly a few meters from the shore but the underwater villages in the light area should be about 12-16 meters deep and probably hidden in reefs/corals/algae to be non detectable from the surface.
Ok I will maintain then the levels I used before it fiits. And anything in the water will be hidden , were it only by the dirt and algea from the Blight swamp drifting in the sea current...as you can see above, this is truly murky water....I even think I will mark this on the map somehow.

Thanx again

One question though
I checked Irving's work ; he speaks of the pyramid of Mictlan as the centre of Mokrath the lizardmen village...so them what is the village west of it (NE of Hendricks). It feels it has to be removed, and otherwise a city becoming a ruin, around the remaining pyramid a new village is erected. It feels as if all these symbols could be used. Would the Pyramid symbol be best?
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:27 am

Robin wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:28 pm
I checked Irving's work ; he speaks of the pyramid of Mictlan as the centre of Mokrath the lizardmen village...so them what is the village west of it (NE of Hendricks). It feels it has to be removed, and otherwise a city becoming a ruin, around the remaining pyramid a new village is erected. It feels as if all these symbols could be used. Would the Pyramid symbol be best?
I just copied Irving's map, he placed the pyramid as distinct to the village in his map. But maybe changed his mind in the description. I think it could work well if the pyramid is a sacred place a bit removed from the modern village. Also because the area in the remote past (2000 BC) was supposed to be a big lizardmen city, so many ruins should still be around the village and pyramid. If we look at real world ancient temple-city complex they could be more than 8x8 miles big, so it makes sense if ancient Mokrath occupied at least 4 1 mile hexes, if not more.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:42 am

ah...ok that works.
that also means there are ruins around the temple
i can work with that
thanx
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:30 pm

Karameikos West

07-10-19 7th draft
Cripes....I am truly pissed at myself I did not knew and made use of a hex grid master in the Alfheim/Canolbarth map. The hex shifts at the edges are a major pain. and need extensive reworking. Much more work than estimated pours in, beside the Gaz based flaws while I intend to follow the X1 where possible. Ouch.
Still busy, yet this is an update.
Here I have followed the X1 mountain line, replaced some location flaws I made (like fort Cruth) accordingly, and began filling in the mountains and hills.
As said earlier, X1 also has its own flaw, even continued in Gaz1/TM2, where the Magos river begins in the otherside of trhe mountain range going through a mountain arm, is soo off, I am as ofd yet still unknown how to resolve this, yet the flaw is more visible now.

Image

Any ideas and suggestions are as always welcome.
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