GazH Timeline (working thread)

Continuing the Gazetteer and Module Tradition Beyond the Known World.

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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:41 pm

Hugin wrote:While the maps on on hold while I figure out the best way to do them, I've been working on the next phase of the GazH project: a Culture Matrix (on the google doc) collecting brief notes on various cultures. This will be needed to be able to see aspects of all the various cultures that may have been shared, developed, stolen, or imparted by Immortals.

Another interesting part of all this is speculating on when certain cultural elements began, and how/why. "What happened in the past to get today's traditions?"

I think this is a great idea. I'll continue to look at the document, but after a brief review I would add two more columns. 1) Time Begin, to Time End. That way we can seen when a culture/civilization starts, and when it ceases to exist. 2) Range/Location. I think these two things will really help us start to see all of the culture to culture interactions that take place across time. Hopefully we can then use this chart to fill out some nice visual maps with cultural/national borders throughout time.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:52 pm

Chimpman wrote:I think this is a great idea. I'll continue to look at the document, but after a brief review I would add two more columns. 1) Time Begin, to Time End. That way we can seen when a culture/civilization starts, and when it ceases to exist. 2) Range/Location. I think these two things will really help us start to see all of the culture to culture interactions that take place across time. Hopefully we can then use this chart to fill out some nice visual maps with cultural/national borders throughout time.

That is what I plan for it to be like, but first I am just collecting information of known time points (1000 AC for Gazetteers and dates of transplantation for the Hollow World). Once we have the 'snap-shots' we can then begin work on the various time periods. The problem with start-stop times is that there won't be many of them at all. Most cultures are in a constant state of change and so I think I'll actually be showing cultural elements with the start/stop dates. With this approach You'll be able to see what elements existed in a culture at any given time (more or less).

Range/location is also a good idea though I'd love to able to show it on a map, even if it is only in rough.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:00 pm

Update: This project (and anything D&D or game related for that matter, including posting here) has been slowed to a crawl at the moment due to work (and the approaching Christmas season). It is far from abandoned and will undoubtedly experience several of these boom and bust cycles due to the long-term nature of the project itself.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:47 pm

I'm around as well. The bad news is that my activity on these boards has decreased - I still drop by every day, but am posting less. The good news is that this is translating into an increased activity on several of my unfinished products (one of which being Mystara 2300 BC) so hopefully I will be able to share something in the near future.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:17 am

I wish I was in your shoes. Work is picking up and I have less time to stop by or develop material. :cry: It shall pass, eventually.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:41 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I wish I was in your shoes. Work is picking up and I have less time to stop by or develop material. :cry: It shall pass, eventually.

I do really hate this time of year though. Birthdays, holidays, deadlines at work (I never seem to be able to take vacation around now...). Really the only reason I spend any time with Mystara at all these days it to get away from the rest of the stress. ;)
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Sun May 16, 2010 3:54 am

I'm going through some SC material doing research for Mystara 2300 BC (and looking over our notes here) and I think that this event has been mislabeled:

# -1300 AY, 2300 BC
The araneas start to disappear, replaced by by mages of elven and human form who keep lizard men, the ancestors of the shazaks, as servants and slaves. These folk begin calling their land Herath.

I think this event actually falls under BC 2000.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Sun May 16, 2010 4:19 am

I can't confirm it right now but I believe it's correct (from the Savage Coast book). From what I remember, these 'elves' and 'humans' are actually the aranea shape-shifted into those forms.

Although the ancient aranea race would be aware of elves since long ages past, they probably used those forms in addition to human, as the great elven migration was passing through around this time (with some remaining in the Savage Coast region).
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Sun May 16, 2010 6:18 am

Hugin wrote:From what I remember, these 'elves' and 'humans' are actually the aranea shape-shifted into those forms.

Correct.

Here's the quote taken from the Savage Coast Campaign book (taken from the Vaults, but I have confirmed it is the same in my pdf versions as well).
SC pg 10 wrote:Three Millennia Past: Elves appeared in the region roughly 3,300 years ago, spreading through the eastern and central Savage Coast. However, they did not significantly affect the local cultures because they did not intermingle. While elves and humans held power in the east, the enduks were created in the far west. Their first cities were built about 3,000 years ago on the Orc's Head peninsula.

About the same time, the araneas started to disappear, their web cities in the forests replaced by isolated towers inhabited by mages of elven and human form who kept lizard men, the ancestors of the shazaks, as servants and slaves. These folk began calling their land Herath.

I suppose this could be interpreted either way, depending on whether you associate the second paragraph with the first date given (as you have) or the second date given. However, there is another reference in the Timeline section:

SC pg 24 wrote:B.C. 2000 Elf and human mages settle in the forests of the western Savage Coast, supplanting the araneas; they name their land Herath. Enduks are created on the Orc's Head Peninsula and begin building the civilisation of Nimmur.

This suggests to me that the interpretation of the first quote should be to associate the "supplanting" of the aranea with the second date of BC 2000.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Sun May 16, 2010 8:36 pm

You may be right. It could have been (and perhaps likely was) a process over several hundred years. The elves first reaching the area c. 2300 BC (and remember how I think these are very rounded numbers) and then over the next several hundred years the aranea began their shape-shifting. This probably was gradual at first and then picked up momentum by 2000 BC.

Anyway, it should probably be adjusted/noted.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:08 pm

Hey Hugin,

I'm going through timelines again and I stumbled on some references you missed in your Historical Overview post for BC 3000 to BC 1700. This is pulled from the Elven Migrations thread:

Elven Migrations wrote:BC 2500
Vulcania Elves -> Second Separatists (begin their own migration - Belcadiz, Truedyl, Icevale, Sheyallia, and perhaps others that perished)
Schattenalfen ancestors -> Atziann's splinter group clan (found first Aengmor) [Actual date unknown, but I think this is the date we came up with in our discussions.]

BC 1950
Shadow Elf splinter group -> Glantrian (Schattenalfen) Elves (a small band of elves moves back to the surface forming the Schattenalfen clan, though they have no contact with others of their kind)

BC 1750
Atziann's clan -> (resurfaces to live by Schattenalfen group in Glantri)

BC 1700
Glantrian Elves -> Schattenalfen (driven underground, rejoin main Shadow Elves group)
Glantrian Elves -> Icevale elves (in HW)
Glantrian Elves -> Truedyl & Belcadiz (travel underground but will reemerge c. 1650 BC)
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:16 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hey Hugin

Thanks for pointing that out. It may have been because the Historical Overview was strictly canon (could be wrong though), whereas the elven migrations was crafted to 'make sense' of those migrations within the existing timelines. Either way, I'll include them since these have been more or less 'finalized' for the project.

Wow, I just realized it's been over a year since we started this! Man, time FLIES when you're busy! You know what they say, "Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana".
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:24 pm

Hey Hugin,

It looks like your summary here is missing some dates from your summary here.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:28 pm

Chimpman wrote:Hey Hugin,

It looks like your summary here is missing some dates from your summary here.

I think that may be because the first consisted of dates found in canon while the second was a derivative work based on reconciling dates and events that appeared contradictory.

But that said, we are at the stage where we basically have our 'skeleton' (canon timeline) constructed and are able to fill in and extrapolate on that (which was done in that second thread for a particular subject matter). I'm not sure if I want to insert our own work into the base timeline, or to say it better, I'd like to keep that timeline free from interpretations and additions so that it can continue to function as the supporting skeleton. This way we will always know what is 'changeable' and what is not. Keep my prior statement in mind, "For anybody casually looking here, this is a condensed, foundational timeline that does not provide details or explanations of many things; there may also be discrepancies as are found in canon".

So this timeline is the foundation on which we can work from.

[Edit: And then I realize that I've already included some of our work on elves in the timeline. Maybe what I could do is mark these extras as inclusions.]
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:14 pm

Alright, I've gone and added those points into the timeline but with * marks to differentiate them from canonical notes. This way we can view things in context while at the same time seeing the distinction of foundation and what was built on top of that. Thanks for noticing that not all of that elven material was not inserted, chimpman.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:14 pm

Hugin wrote:Alright, I've gone and added those points into the timeline but with * marks to differentiate them from canonical notes. This way we can view things in context while at the same time seeing the distinction of foundation and what was built on top of that.

I like using this method. Now when we go back and look at the timeline we can tell which pieces are pulled directly from canon and which are "massaged" to some degree. Good call.

Hugin wrote:Thanks for noticing that not all of that elven material was not inserted, chimpman.

;)
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Spellweaver » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:24 pm

Was this project abandoned?
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:46 am

I'm still around (and so is Hugin - though I think RL issues have taken up most of his time). Not abandoned, but going rather slowly at the moment. I personally use it as a means to an end (meaning that it's very useful when I'm working on some of my other Mystaran Historical projects), but as those have also slowed down...

Anyone is welcomed to participate though, so if you have ideas or want to share any research, I'm sure it will be appreciated. :D
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:11 pm

Chimpman's correct. As much as I'd love to be actively working on this project, time just isn't available; well, at least not in the significant chunks I really need to be able to get something accomplished.

All that said, I'm quite proud of the foundation that we already have laid down and hope to continue in earnest one day. Also, working with others is always a great motivator to keep things moving. I never would have been able to get as much done as I did without Chimpman working on it too. Perhaps the three of us could get this giant boulder rolling again.
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