Location of Blackmoor

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Location of Blackmoor

Postby xoronthran » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:55 am

I guess the consensus seems to be Blackmoor is located as shown in the Hollow World map, however I believe the Hollow World Maps are wrong. I remember looking at them for the first time and seeing pre-cataclysmic SE Brun at a warmer latitude instead of being the North Pole as described in the Gaz series. Then Blackmoor was shown on Skothar instead of Brun.

All the pre-HW literature points to Blackmoor being in northern Brun.

- In DA1 we are told the Thonian survivors of the GRoF sail away to the pitiful, cold new land on Skothar which they call Thonia. Hence Old Thonia and New Thonia is not the same land.

- Gaz series, Blackmoorian priests crusade in Borea which presumably is nearby, not on a different continent.
- Gaz 3, the engine of the FSS Beagle in the Valley of the Ancients to the south of Blackmoor is moved by immortals several miles to the south to the highlands (now Glantri) - the nucleus of the spheres. They don't move it across continents.
- The elven clans who migrated to Blackmoor, remained in Brun (Wendar I believe) after the GRoF.
- Gaz 10 - Urzud, in the upper Borean Valley was listed as a possible location of Blackmoor.

This is just form memory - I'm sure there is more evidence.

Whilst Urzud is a plausible location given the GRoF wiped the landscape clean, I beleve the Great Bay region in Norwold would be a good fit as it does not require significant change to the landscape.

- Blackmoor would be on the southern shore of the Great Bay with the Skandaharians to the north and northeast.
- The Icereach Range would have been called the Goblin Kush (or Beastman Kush to fit with the Gaz10 timeline) where the Afridhi hailed from.
- Thonia would be located to the south in Norwold and to the south-east over the land bridge to the Dawn Territories )where in the south the Thonians plantations would have been).
- The Peshwah could be proto-Ethengarians or completely wiped out by GRoF.
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Re: Location of Blackmoor

Postby Cthulhudrew » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:05 am

You're not wrong, and pretty much all the pre-Hollow World information regarding Blackmoor's location does, indeed, suggest that it was located somewhere in/on Brun, rather than Skothar. The topic was the subject of many debates in the early years of the Mystara Mailing List, in fact.

At this point, however, I do believe the general consensus is to place it in Skothar, instead, largely due to the Hollow World relocation of it. It does fit a little bit better with later, post-HW information as well- notably the creation/placement of the Oltec and Azcan people in Brun (which, frankly, is a little problematic in and of itself, given the climate of their likely location in pre-Great Rain of Fire/World Tilt times, which wouldn't have been quite as tropical as the Aztec culture it is partially modeled on.)
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Re: Location of Blackmoor

Postby Havard » Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:32 pm

Hello Xoronthran!

This is one of my favorite topics! BTW any specific reason for posting this in the GazF forum? It seems like it could also have been posted in the main Mystara forum, unless you are specificially interested in discussing the location within the GazF framework...

xoronthran wrote:All the pre-HW literature points to Blackmoor being in northern Brun.


Correct. Or at least Brun. My impression was that it was originally intended to be located in the Known World, with Glantri being the Valley of the Ancients etc.

- In DA1 we are told the Thonian survivors of the GRoF sail away to the pitiful, cold new land on Skothar which they call Thonia. Hence Old Thonia and New Thonia is not the same land.


Also true. I believe that DA1 co-author David J. Ritchie intended the Thonians to be ancestors of modern day Thyatians. Note that DA1 also assumes the Great Rain of Fire to have taken place in BC1000, but this was quickly changed to BC4000 in one of the early gazetteers.

Another problem with the Gazetters though is that the Ethengar Gaz lists the Ethengar Plateau as being the North Pole at the time, which seems pretty difficult to reconcile with either version.

The HW placement of Blackmoor on Skothar was indeed a revision, contradicting previous sources, but making the basis for later sources like WotI. I believe Bruce Heard commented on this in his thread or elsewhere saying that they wanted to move Blackmoor away from the Known World region since there was already so much going on there.

- Gaz series, Blackmoorian priests crusade in Borea which presumably is nearby, not on a different continent.
- Gaz 3, the engine of the FSS Beagle in the Valley of the Ancients to the south of Blackmoor is moved by immortals several miles to the south to the highlands (now Glantri) - the nucleus of the spheres. They don't move it across continents.


Note that on the HW map, Skothar and Brun are joined into one super-continent.

- The elven clans who migrated to Blackmoor, remained in Brun (Wendar I believe) after the GRoF.


This is really something that I have taken great interest in because I really want to connect the Wendar Elves to the elves described by Dave Arneson. DA4 provides some hints of such links as well.

- Gaz 10 - Urzud, in the upper Borean Valley was listed as a possible location of Blackmoor.


The problem with Urzud or the Known World is that they fit very poorly with the DA maps. As you say Norwold is a better fit.

- The Peshwah could be proto-Ethengarians or completely wiped out by GRoF.


I like having the Peshwah as proto-Ethengarians, though there are some problems with that.

While there is the disagreement between whether to place Blackmoor on Skothar or Brun, there are also those who have wished to reconcile the Blackmoor on Skothar idea with the Ethengar Gaz reference about the North Pole. So this is definately a big topic. I tend to prefer using the HW maps with only some minor changes, but I am not really sure if there is any consensus anymore.

-Havard

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Re: Location of Blackmoor

Postby xoronthran » Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:22 am

Thanks Cthulhudrew (Andrew Thiessen?) and Havard for getting me up to speed on that.

I posted in this section because there was some mention of a 2nd dwarven race on Skothar because Blackmoor was held to be on that continent - so that sought of set me off. Blackmoor is critical to Mystara's history and reference to history is critical in designing current Gaz's.
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