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Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:15 pm
by Havard
Pathfinder Core Rulebook

This comprehensive 640-page guide provides everything you need to set out into a world of limitless fantasy adventure! Choose from ancestries like elf, human, and goblin and classes like alchemist, fighter, and sorcerer to create a hero of your own design, destined to become a legend! The new Pathfinder rules are easier to learn and faster to play, and they offer deeper customization than ever before!
Buy Hardcover ($59.99) Buy Deluxe Hardcover ($79.99)
https://paizo.com/pathfinder

Anyone here picking this massive book up? :)

What are the main changes from the previous edtion?

-Havard

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:47 pm
by Havard

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:38 pm
by talsine
I would skip the Polygon review, its technically positive, but some bias really shines through.

There are some major differences in char gen and play, but the biggest one, and my personal favorite, is the new Action economy. instead of having a Standard and a Move action, you just get 3 actions that you can use for whatever you want and something can use more than one. Somethings even scale, spell casting for example, if you use multiple actions to cast it.

Its got some really interesting things going on, though it won't be everyones cup of tea. I feel like this is much closer to what I would have wanted from a 5E D&D. It takes good stuff from 3.X and 4E and cleans up the action economy, which has already been an issue. its not perfect, but i really like it so far and look forward to actually getting to place it.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:34 pm
by shesheyan
Not much meat in the review.

Sounds like PF2 will become the best iteration of the D&D d20 System (circa 2000) to date. But it that also means it remains a multi-feat cherry picking and multi-classing galore. A type of game I left behind. Not for me.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:52 pm
by talsine
shesheyan wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:34 pm
Not much meat in the review.

Sounds like PF2 will become the best iteration of the D&D d20 System (circa 2000) to date. But it that also means it remains a multi-feat cherry picking and multi-classing galore. A type of game I left behind. Not for me.
There are a lot of feats, but they are very very well broken up, and Multiclassing is done via feats as well. It gives a lot of flexibility.

check out 2e.aonprd.com Thats the official PF2 SRD and has all of the rules and class / feat information. It still might not be for you, but its free, so makes for good bathroom reading. As it is, this will be the first time I've played d20 since 5E launched, and I'm hoping it plays as well as it reads so far.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 am
by Starglim
Multiple reviews have gone up as might be expected. I thought this was useful: EN World: Complexity and Depth

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:30 am
by Angel Tarragon
I got my hands on the Special Edition covers of the Core Rulebook and Bestiary. I am seriously tempted to leave them shrink wrapped for collectibility and display purposes. I will eventually get my hands on the normal covers.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:38 pm
by shesheyan
Starglim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 am
Multiple reviews have gone up as might be expected. I thought this was useful: EN World: Complexity and Depth
Very informative thank you. It confirms PF2 is not for me. I'm very happy with the way 5e managed to position itself somewhere in between 2e and 3e styles of play but also adds contemporary designs like advantage/disadvantage. It hits the sweet spot for me and my group of players. The 5e class Path system (class kits) is very intuitive, friendly for novice players and doesn't require a lot of head space for people who play only occasionally. New books have introduced new Paths. That is enough variation for me.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:46 pm
by talsine
shesheyan wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:38 pm
Starglim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 am
Multiple reviews have gone up as might be expected. I thought this was useful: EN World: Complexity and Depth
Very informative thank you. It confirms PF2 is not for me. I'm very happy with the way 5e managed to position itself somewhere in between 2e and 3e styles of play but also adds contemporary designs like advantage/disadvantage. It hits the sweet spot for me and my group of players. The 5e class Path system (class kits) is very intuitive, friendly for novice players and doesn't require a lot of head space for people who play only occasionally. New books have introduced new Paths. That is enough variation for me.
I have to admit, all of the features you site are exactly the reason that I'm interested in PF2. It's been one of my complaints about 5E, but I also rarely play with completely green players, so that is likely also a big part of the difference in preference here.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:07 am
by shesheyan
talsine wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:46 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:38 pm
Starglim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 am
Multiple reviews have gone up as might be expected. I thought this was useful: EN World: Complexity and Depth
Very informative thank you. It confirms PF2 is not for me. I'm very happy with the way 5e managed to position itself somewhere in between 2e and 3e styles of play but also adds contemporary designs like advantage/disadvantage. It hits the sweet spot for me and my group of players. The 5e class Path system (class kits) is very intuitive, friendly for novice players and doesn't require a lot of head space for people who play only occasionally. New books have introduced new Paths. That is enough variation for me.
I have to admit, all of the features you site are exactly the reason that I'm interested in PF2. It's been one of my complaints about 5E, but I also rarely play with completely green players, so that is likely also a big part of the difference in preference here.
The funny thing is that there are no novices at my table. We are all former Pathfinder and/or 3.5 players. I GMed D&D 3.5, d20 Modern and d20 Star Wars. We just outgrew that level of granularity. We just want to play fast and loose, putting the focus on the story. 5e lets us do that.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:10 am
by talsine
shesheyan wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:07 am
talsine wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:46 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:38 pm
Starglim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 am
Multiple reviews have gone up as might be expected. I thought this was useful: EN World: Complexity and Depth
Very informative thank you. It confirms PF2 is not for me. I'm very happy with the way 5e managed to position itself somewhere in between 2e and 3e styles of play but also adds contemporary designs like advantage/disadvantage. It hits the sweet spot for me and my group of players. The 5e class Path system (class kits) is very intuitive, friendly for novice players and doesn't require a lot of head space for people who play only occasionally. New books have introduced new Paths. That is enough variation for me.
I have to admit, all of the features you site are exactly the reason that I'm interested in PF2. It's been one of my complaints about 5E, but I also rarely play with completely green players, so that is likely also a big part of the difference in preference here.
The funny thing is that there are no novices at my table. We are all former Pathfinder and/or 3.5 players. I GMed D&D 3.5, d20 Modern and d20 Star Wars. We just outgrew that level of granularity. We just want to play fast and loose, putting the focus on the story. 5e lets us do that.
If i wanted a game that focused on story, neither PF or really any iteration of D&D would be on there. If i was gonna pick story driven fantasy, i would look at 13th Age, Dungeon World, maybe Forbidden lands? 5E still has a lot of crunch that gets in the way, and the limited options force you to define your character in very specific ways that I personally find to be very limiting from an RP perspective.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:25 pm
by Tim Baker
talsine wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:10 am
If i wanted a game that focused on story, neither PF or really any iteration of D&D would be on there. If i was gonna pick story driven fantasy, i would look at 13th Age, Dungeon World, maybe Forbidden lands? 5E still has a lot of crunch that gets in the way, and the limited options force you to define your character in very specific ways that I personally find to be very limiting from an RP perspective.
It sounds like you're familiar with both PF2 and 13th Age. If you have a moment, I have a few questions to help me better understand if this would be of interest to me.

Both games are based on the d20 OGL, deep down, but appear to have different design philosophies. How differently do they play? How much of their differences are in character generation vs. during the gaming session? How much of that difference is in combat vs. the other pillars of play?

PF2 appears to have elements of 4e design in it, too. How much do you think that influenced PF2?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:38 am
by Tim Baker
Starglim wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:21 am
Multiple reviews have gone up as might be expected. I thought this was useful: EN World: Complexity and Depth
That was a handy review. Thank you for sharing it. Considering the SRD is free, I think I'll check it out.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:40 am
by Tim Baker
talsine wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:52 pm
check out 2e.aonprd.com Thats the official PF2 SRD and has all of the rules and class / feat information. It still might not be for you, but its free, so makes for good bathroom reading.
I've tried accessing this site a couple times today, but just get an error message. I'm happy to be patient, but in the meantime, I thought I'd check on something I was curious about. Does the SRD offer graphical representations of symbols such as 1-, 2-, and 3-action abilities? In the playtest, there were a lot of symbols, but when they were represented as text in Paizo blog posts, it was much harder to follow along. So I thought I'd check to see what I could expect.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:01 am
by talsine
Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:40 am
talsine wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:52 pm
check out 2e.aonprd.com Thats the official PF2 SRD and has all of the rules and class / feat information. It still might not be for you, but its free, so makes for good bathroom reading.
I've tried accessing this site a couple times today, but just get an error message. I'm happy to be patient, but in the meantime, I thought I'd check on something I was curious about. Does the SRD offer graphical representations of symbols such as 1-, 2-, and 3-action abilities? In the playtest, there were a lot of symbols, but when they were represented as text in Paizo blog posts, it was much harder to follow along. So I thought I'd check to see what I could expect.
They are the offical SRD, so they have the icons for most of that, as well as art for a lot of monsters. Apparently they are down for an update, they might be pushing the last of the Monster stats or adding content from some of the new books that are just dropping

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:03 am
by Tim Baker
talsine wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:01 am
They are the offical SRD, so they have the icons for most of that, as well as art for a lot of monsters. Apparently they are down for an update, they might be pushing the last of the Monster stats or adding content from some of the new books that are just dropping
Thanks for the quick response! I look forward to checking it out.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:10 am
by talsine
Tim Baker wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:25 pm
talsine wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:10 am
If i wanted a game that focused on story, neither PF or really any iteration of D&D would be on there. If i was gonna pick story driven fantasy, i would look at 13th Age, Dungeon World, maybe Forbidden lands? 5E still has a lot of crunch that gets in the way, and the limited options force you to define your character in very specific ways that I personally find to be very limiting from an RP perspective.
It sounds like you're familiar with both PF2 and 13th Age. If you have a moment, I have a few questions to help me better understand if this would be of interest to me.

Both games are based on the d20 OGL, deep down, but appear to have different design philosophies. How differently do they play? How much of their differences are in character generation vs. during the gaming session? How much of that difference is in combat vs. the other pillars of play?

PF2 appears to have elements of 4e design in it, too. How much do you think that influenced PF2?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.
so, broad strokes, they are both fusions of 3E and 4E, but 13th age has more obvious ties to 4E and is much more story driven. PF2 is some 3E, some 4E and some 5E.

I have played 13th age, and backed the first 2 kickstarters, but gave up on it after a year because it was both too much 3E/4E and not enough. I honestly wish it had gone further into either being more tied to its inspirations or going further from them. It's not a bad game, its just not for me personally.

PF2 draws on 3/4/5, but is also very much its own game. it takes those old mechanics, and steps them up a notch. They take the encounter / short rest powers from 4/5E and turn them into Focus abilities, i uses a 10 minute short rest instead of a 1 hour one. There is a lot more parity between casters and martials because of those focus abilities, as well as class feats which, instead of just giving more power, instead give you more options. It restricts certain things that everyone used to get (AoO is the one most people notice) and restrict it mostly to the martials, allow them to really shine in those places. They took Ritual casting from 4E/5E, they took 4E's HP progression (though also allowing for you to roll if you prefer). You get the attribute increases on the level of 5E, while still showing level over level progression is skill and attack rolls (i hate the bounded math in 5E)

Just reading it, I feel that PF2 has gone out of its way to take as much good as it could from the past, while also improving on it as much as it could. We will have to wait and see if they are successful, but right now, its going to be my go to FRPG, at least for now.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:18 am
by Tim Baker
talsine wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:10 am
PF2 draws on 3/4/5, but is also very much its own game. it takes those old mechanics, and steps them up a notch. They take the encounter / short rest powers from 4/5E and turn them into Focus abilities, i uses a 10 minute short rest instead of a 1 hour one. There is a lot more parity between casters and martials because of those focus abilities, as well as class feats which, instead of just giving more power, instead give you more options. It restricts certain things that everyone used to get (AoO is the one most people notice) and restrict it mostly to the martials, allow them to really shine in those places. They took Ritual casting from 4E/5E, they took 4E's HP progression (though also allowing for you to roll if you prefer). You get the attribute increases on the level of 5E, while still showing level over level progression is skill and attack rolls (i hate the bounded math in 5E)

Just reading it, I feel that PF2 has gone out of its way to take as much good as it could from the past, while also improving on it as much as it could. We will have to wait and see if they are successful, but right now, its going to be my go to FRPG, at least for now.
Thanks for your several super-helpful posts in this thread. I appreciate you letting me pick your brain.

I had one more quick question about the GM's section of the book. Does it offer alternate rules options, the way the 5e DMG does? For example, if I like 13th Age-style narrative skills, rather than discrete skill lists, is there an option for that, like there is in the DMG? Or would you anticipate options like those might appear in a future book? I'm not familiar with what types of products Paizo tends to produce, other than adventure paths and, in the most general sense, sourcebooks.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:26 am
by talsine
Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:18 am
talsine wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:10 am
PF2 draws on 3/4/5, but is also very much its own game. it takes those old mechanics, and steps them up a notch. They take the encounter / short rest powers from 4/5E and turn them into Focus abilities, i uses a 10 minute short rest instead of a 1 hour one. There is a lot more parity between casters and martials because of those focus abilities, as well as class feats which, instead of just giving more power, instead give you more options. It restricts certain things that everyone used to get (AoO is the one most people notice) and restrict it mostly to the martials, allow them to really shine in those places. They took Ritual casting from 4E/5E, they took 4E's HP progression (though also allowing for you to roll if you prefer). You get the attribute increases on the level of 5E, while still showing level over level progression is skill and attack rolls (i hate the bounded math in 5E)

Just reading it, I feel that PF2 has gone out of its way to take as much good as it could from the past, while also improving on it as much as it could. We will have to wait and see if they are successful, but right now, its going to be my go to FRPG, at least for now.
Thanks for your several super-helpful posts in this thread. I appreciate you letting me pick your brain.

I had one more quick question about the GM's section of the book. Does it offer alternate rules options, the way the 5e DMG does? For example, if I like 13th Age-style narrative skills, rather than discrete skill lists, is there an option for that, like there is in the DMG? Or would you anticipate options like those might appear in a future book? I'm not familiar with what types of products Paizo tends to produce, other than adventure paths and, in the most general sense, sourcebooks.
Those kind of things will be in a future book called the Gamemaster Guide, which they did announce @ Gencon for a release sometime in the next 12 months. I don't know exactly when. I know they have specifically mentioned options for using a more 5E style bounded accuracy / math for skills and attacks. While it might not have that option specifically, the old GMG went into why they made certain decisions and thus could be used to easily homebrew something like that.

Re: Pathfinder 2nd Ed is now available

Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:38 am
by Tim Baker
talsine wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:26 am
Those kind of things will be in a future book called the Gamemaster Guide, which they did announce @ Gencon for a release sometime in the next 12 months. I don't know exactly when. I know they have specifically mentioned options for using a more 5E style bounded accuracy / math for skills and attacks. While it might not have that option specifically, the old GMG went into why they made certain decisions and thus could be used to easily homebrew something like that.
Good to know. Thanks again!