Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

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Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:55 am

One logical source of inspiration for Prestige Classes is the 20 Spacefarer Kits from CGR1 The Complete Spacefarer's Handbook. It is possible that some of these are more suitable for use as PrCs than others or that some might work better as base classes (or even "monster templates").

This is a "working thread" to discuss the kits, decide first if they should be converted to PrCs and then work on them one at a time.

The CGR1 Kits:
  • Warrior kits
    • Corsair,
    • Crusader,
    • Frontiersman,
    • Marine and
    • Merchant.
  • Wizard kits
    • Arcanist,
    • Astronomer,
    • Geomancer,
    • Imposter and
    • War Mage.
  • Priest kits
    • Astrologer,
    • Diplomat,
    • Evangelist,
    • Medicus and
    • Missionary.
  • Rogue kits
    • Aperusa (not a PrC - official conversion has Aperusa as a race),
    • Courier,
    • Harlequin,
    • Privateer,
    • Salvager.
If we make any conversions in this thread, I'll follow the style of ENWorld's Creature Catalogue team and copy them over to a different Prestige Class thread (with no working out in it).

This post will be edited to provide links to any Prestige Classes.

LAST EDIT (by Big Mac): Aperusa removed, as the official conversion now has it as a race option. 2 April 2011
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Aperusa are a 3e race

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:02 pm

The official conversion has the Aperusa converted into a PC race. I agree with this, as they are known to have the ability to hold their breath for epic amounts of time.

I'll cross them off of the list. That leaves us with 19 to review.
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Corsair

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:45 pm

In Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms* my favourite PrCs are the ones that have a tie-in to an in-character organistaion. There are the Wizards of High Sorcery, various Knights of Solamnia, Red Wizards and Purple Dragon Knights. I really like this sort of PrC because membership or the organisation becomes a prerequisite** and the organisation itself becomes a background element of any PC or NPC that has the PrC.

* = Greyhawk, sadly, is not so well defined in the GH-lite material that comes with 3e.

** = But taking levels in the PrC is not manditory.

With Corsairs needing to obtain a Letter of Marque, I think that makes them very similar to the above "groundling" PrCs. But one difference is that the Corsair is a vague thing. I wonder if it might be good to give an example of a specific corsair, that GMs can modify. A Corsair of Bral might be a good example, as it would tie the PrC in with the structure of Bral's navy, give the corsair a set of pre-defined enemies and they would need to build up a relationship with Prince Andru in order to qualify for the PrC.

A second thing to think about is the relationship between the Corsair and the Privateer (rogue kit). Both require a Letter of Marque to operate, so a merger of the two could be possible. But Privateers are said to be less respectable than Corsairs. I wonder if there could be a structure of having a navy, then a core of corsairs and finally a bunch of privateers to make up the numbers.

I think we could go either way with it, but if corsairs are highly respectable they could be given command of units containing navy ships and if privateers are less respectable they could be seen as more like mercenary units that are hired on in times of war and let go in times of peace. If we can actually make the Corsair and Privateer feel different, then a pair of PrCs might be more logical.
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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Knightfall » Sat Apr 02, 2011 2:22 pm

Do you have issue # 92/151 of Dungeon/Polyhedron that details Spelljammer: Shadow of the Spider Moon (by Andy Collins)?

It has 5 Spelljammer prestige classes in it...

● Master Scavenger
● Planetary Explorer
● Spelljammer Ace
● Stellar Corsair
● Storykeeper
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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Zacaros » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:13 pm

finally got in, phew.
The prestige cls from Shadow of the Spider Moon are good but still nothing special, nothing too specific for the setting i mean.
A good thing to do would be to create organizations (and then prestige cls related to) with their own goals, modus operandi and of course, access bonuses chart as presented in some manuals i have around, gimme a sec and i'll give you an example

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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:42 pm

Knightfall wrote:Do you have issue # 92/151 of Dungeon/Polyhedron that details Spelljammer: Shadow of the Spider Moon (by Andy Collins)?
I think that Shadows of the Spider Moon is great. It isn't the orignal Spelljammer setting, and I would want to see the 3e Conversion Project support the original setting. But Beyond the Moons converts the Spider Moon universe into a conventional crystal sphere (Pyrespace) and I'm all for Pyrespace being brought into the SJ universe*.

* = Perhaps as a sphere discovered in the era associated with the SJ conversion (if it moves on in time) or an undiscovered sphere (if the SJ conversion sticks with the time of the SJ gamebooks).
Knightfall wrote:It has 5 Spelljammer prestige classes in it...

● Master Scavenger
● Planetary Explorer
● Spelljammer Ace
● Stellar Corsair
● Storykeeper
The Stellar Corsair could replace both the Corsair and the Privateer.

Of the other PrCs, the Master Scavenger could replace the Salvager, the Planetary Explorer could replace the Frontiersman or the Geomancer, the Spelljammer Ace and Storykeeper seem to be new concepts.
Zacaros wrote:finally got in, phew.
Welcome to The Piazza Zacaros!

There is also a generic forum for Spelljammer here. If you want to talk about anything SJ, that doesn't relate to 3e, you can post it there and fans of all rules can get to see it.
Zacaros wrote:The prestige cls from Shadow of the Spider Moon are good but still nothing special, nothing too specific for the setting i mean.
A good thing to do would be to create organizations (and then prestige cls related to) with their own goals, modus operandi and of course, access bonuses chart as presented in some manuals i have around, gimme a sec and i'll give you an example
There are some great organisations in Spelljammer. I think it is a shame that some bits of canon are not connected up too well. I think the 2e SJ has this as much as Shadows of the Spider Moon.

I was thinking along similar lines to you, but from the other end.

The Corsair and Privateer could be turned into more specific Corsair of Bral and Privateer of Bral (to give a specific military organisation to authorise and regulate them).

The Geomancers could be the group behind the publication of the Geonomicon.

Imposters could be turned into a rival faction to The Shapers. With The Shapers working to create laws that restrict the activity of non-invokers, Imposters could be a good way for some illusionists to evade those laws and work against The Shapers.

The Marine kit mentions the Kintiara, Scro Breathen of the Knife, Wing Jen Sen and the giff (who are all supposedly marines). I think we need a few navies to give people a reason to be a marine. A PrC tied to a specific navy would be more like the Purple Dragon Knight PrC.

The Crusader is probably something that needs to remain generic, but there could be a section listing the big SJ religions, with them being the only religions a crusader can hook up with. There could maybe even be a small bit of personalisation for the religions.
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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Zacaros » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:56 pm

a (quite simple) example of organization :

The Transgalactic League of Costumed Gladiators

As you can easly imagine, it's the SJ equivalent of WWE :D (as i said, a quite simple example)

Type : Showbusiness, with seldom illegal affairs
Goals : found new costumed gladiators wannabes and keep the show running, without losing too much money or face
Enemies : no "actual" enemies, just competitors in the same business, but sometimes ex-gladiators can keep old grudges alive for years or even decades.
Restrictions : strictly no magic users permitted in the shows, aside from few ones able to create visual spectacles or arena dangers for keeping the audience interested and the exhibitions varied

Positive criteria and related organization score

being part of a stereotypical fighting race, or associated with fighting sports + 1
having the weapon focus (unarmed) feat + 1
having the stunning fist class ability/feat + 2
having the weapon specialization (unarmed) feat + 1
having a flashy costume or mask that captures the public imagination + 2
having all the physical ability scores positive + 2
having a 18 or more in a physical ability score + 2
having a cool nickname that everyone seems to like + 2
having a signature move + 1
surviving a royal rumble + 3
having the perform (wrestling) skill trained + 2
having the perform (wrestling) skill focused + 1
having a good paymaster/manager +2
Last edited by Zacaros on Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:00 pm

Sounds interesting. Where are you getting the score rules from?
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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Zacaros » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:14 pm

(continued)

Negative criteria and related organization score

actually hurting another gladiator on stage (with ability score damage) -1
insulting another gladiator outside the guidelines of the show -2
bringing up a personal vendetta in the arena -1 (it depends on how much it's personal and how the audience and the target reacts)
having loud personal affairs outside of the show (harassing women/men, being caught stealing, having actual fights, being openly homosexual, being into alchol/drug abuse, sleeping with lots of people, expressing risky personal opinions) -3
being caught fighting in an illegal ring -5 and possible prosecution inside and outside the organization
using combat drugs -10 and expulsion
damaging the hidden identity of a masked gladiator - 8 and lots of troubles
using concelead magical objects -10 and expulsion
going down first, second or third in a royal rumble -3
killing, maiming, bad hurting another gladiator -20 expulsion and if you're unlucky a few bounty hunters and ex-colleagues hunting you down

Ranks

0 (0-1 points) total wannabe, no benefits
1 (2-4 points) wannabe, the organization grants you 3 days of training per week over 2 months
2 (5-7 points) new face, the organization grants you a full costume, an insurance and the access to the gladiator prestige class

and so on, this is a simple, and quite reductive example, now think about this with martial organizations, religious orders and you'll get the idea
Last edited by Zacaros on Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Zacaros » Sat Apr 02, 2011 7:20 pm

star wars saga edition - the force unleashed sourcebook

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Re: Converting CGR1 Kits to PrCs?

Post by Zacaros » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:17 pm

uh, anyway, with my example i wanted to give away an idea of what grants the access to a prestige class in-game, making it a bit more mechanics-clear and a bit less mechanics-driven.Anyway, i thinks that some of these kits could be very well stand alone classes.

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