Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Athas and the sorcerer-kings.
The Book-House: Find Dark Sun products.
Post Reply
User avatar
Coronoides
Dragon Sage
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:18 am
Gender: male
Location: Mostly Melbourne Australia
Contact:

Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Coronoides » Thu May 09, 2019 11:35 pm

I’m doing a 5e conversion of the thri kreen race. Athas is the world where the race is most common especially as a PC option. However, my knowledge of Dark Sun is limited. What are the essential features fans would expect in a PC thri kreen race?
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

User avatar
FaerieGodfather
Shroompunk Warlord
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:16 pm
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by FaerieGodfather » Fri May 10, 2019 12:07 am

natural attacks + poison
four arms (not necessarily four attacks)
armored carapace
sleepless
fast + leaping
missile deflection

Everything on Athas is inherently psionic. Non-Athasian Thri-Kreen-- they're native to Toril and Oerth-- shouldn't have psionic powers.

User avatar
Seethyr
Couatl
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am
Gender: male
Location: The City of Gold

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Seethyr » Fri May 10, 2019 2:31 am

I’d also consider calling them the “mantis-folk” and then having a bunch of subspecies such as the thri-kreen, tohr-kreen, zik-chil and a few others. I know the tohr are only settled thri-kreen but you could at least see a difference in their ability bonuses.

For example +1 for all mantis folk, with an additional +2 to Wisdom for thri-kreen, +2 to strength for tohr and +2 to intelligence for zik-chil.
All Maztica Alive Netbooks Available in the Link:The Maztica Alive Campaign

Newest Book: TWC6 True World Bestiary II - Monsters A-H

Maztica Alive! Yahoo Group Join Us

User avatar
Coronoides
Dragon Sage
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:18 am
Gender: male
Location: Mostly Melbourne Australia
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Coronoides » Fri May 10, 2019 3:27 am

FaerieGodfather wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:07 am
natural attacks + poison
four arms (not necessarily four attacks)
armored carapace
sleepless
fast + leaping
missile deflection

Everything on Athas is inherently psionic. Non-Athasian Thri-Kreen-- they're native to Toril and Oerth-- shouldn't have psionic powers.
Of these most are mentioned in the 5e monster manual version. Except missile defection. I’m inclined to leave this out because A) it does not appear in the 5e monster, B) it could be a learned skill for trained warriors and therefore more like a class feature than a race trait held by all members of the race, C) in 5e PC races often are missing seen in the monster version, for example the Githzerai’s psychic damage punch. However, would leaving it out result in howls of protest?
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

User avatar
Dragonhelm
Aurak
Posts: 1529
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 3:53 am
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Dragonhelm » Fri May 10, 2019 3:29 am

Trampas Whiteman
---DragonHelm--->

Image

Moderator for: Dragonlance. My moderator voice is Dark Red.

User avatar
Coronoides
Dragon Sage
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:18 am
Gender: male
Location: Mostly Melbourne Australia
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Coronoides » Fri May 10, 2019 3:30 am

Seethyr wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 2:31 am
I’d also consider calling them the “mantis-folk” and then having a bunch of subspecies such as the thri-kreen, tohr-kreen, zik-chil and a few others. I know the tohr are only settled thri-kreen but you could at least see a difference in their ability bonuses.

For example +1 for all mantis folk, with an additional +2 to Wisdom for thri-kreen, +2 to strength for tohr and +2 to intelligence for zik-chil.
I was unaware of the sub-races. Should be simple enough to add in. THanks.
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

User avatar
FaerieGodfather
Shroompunk Warlord
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:16 pm
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by FaerieGodfather » Fri May 10, 2019 4:59 am

Coronoides wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:27 am
Of these most are mentioned in the 5e monster manual version. Except missile defection. I’m inclined to leave this out because A) it does not appear in the 5e monster,
This is a fair call.
Coronoides wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:27 am
B) it could be a learned skill for trained warriors and therefore more like a class feature than a race trait held by all members of the race,
The issue of the Thri-Kreen short lifespan is partially addressed by the fact they have extensive ancestral memories. If it's a learned skill... it's one they learned a thousand generations ago, as it previously applied to every member of the race regardless of class.

But if the monster entry doesn't include it, I would say the PC entry should not include it either for consistency's sake.
Coronoides wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:27 am
However, would leaving it out result in howls of protest?
I'm as fervent a kreen fan as I've ever met, and it wouldn't bother me much.

User avatar
Icarus
Ogre
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:31 pm
Gender: male
Location: Cape May
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Icarus » Fri May 10, 2019 6:11 am

FaerieGodfather wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:07 am
... Non-Athasian Thri-Kreen-- they're native to Toril and Oerth-- shouldn't have psionic powers.
I would have to disagree with this one.
While I realize that everything Athasian is psionic, there's no reason to remove that elsewhere.
In the World of Greyhawk (Oerth, for those not familiar) psionics exist, and (at least according to published sources) "Thri-kreen of Oerth are similar in almost every way to the red-shelled J'hol, and have the standard chances for psionics."
- TSR 2437 Thri-Kreen of Athas, Sidebar: Where the Kreen Are, p.84
"And he did fly,... and he was seen on the wings of the wind."
My online Gallery of Artwork. Take a look at my illustrations!

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 24993
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Big Mac » Fri May 10, 2019 6:17 am

Coronoides wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:35 pm
I’m doing a 5e conversion of the thri kreen race. Athas is the world where the race is most common especially as a PC option. However, my knowledge of Dark Sun is limited. What are the essential features fans would expect in a PC thri kreen race?
Have you got Thri-Kreen of Athas?

If you are doing something for Thri-Kreen, and aiming it at Dark Sun fans, they are probably going to be using your conversion alongside that book.
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum (and administrator). My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Icarus
Ogre
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:31 pm
Gender: male
Location: Cape May
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Icarus » Fri May 10, 2019 6:41 am

Coronoides wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 11:35 pm
What are the essential features fans would expect in a PC thri kreen race?
I would definitely agree with much of the above.
  • Four arms are a definite *must*
  • Sleepless is also a definite *must* … and, frankly, the game needs a race other than Elves who don't sleep.
  • Fast movement rate is also something I can't imagine 'kreen not having.
One other, though:
Biological polymorphism - Thri-kreen shouldn't be a race of single-type creatures, andy more than elves, dwarves, humans, or halflings.
Anyone who's likely to be a fan of Thri-kreen and want to read about them are likely to not want them to be flat. Because of the many and varied forms of 'kreen, some don't even have anatomy that's the same. Some have abdomens that nearly touch the ground, while others are short and high up. Some have backwards locust-like legs while others have knees.
I don't know if you're doing this for your own enjoyment, that of your players, or if you're doing something for public release, but, I don't think that a single sub-species would do them justice.
Whether you completely stat each subrace, or just mention how they're different in appearance or culture, I'd at least touch on the topic more than briefly.
"And he did fly,... and he was seen on the wings of the wind."
My online Gallery of Artwork. Take a look at my illustrations!

User avatar
FaerieGodfather
Shroompunk Warlord
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:16 pm
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by FaerieGodfather » Fri May 10, 2019 7:45 am

Icarus wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 6:11 am
While I realize that everything Athasian is psionic, there's no reason to remove that elsewhere.
In the World of Greyhawk (Oerth, for those not familiar) psionics exist, and (at least according to published sources) "Thri-kreen of Oerth are similar in almost every way to the red-shelled J'hol, and have the standard chances for psionics."
- TSR 2437 Thri-Kreen of Athas, Sidebar: Where the Kreen Are, p.84
That's standard chances of psionics for a Greyhawk character, though. I'm not saying that Thri-Kreen should be especially nonpsionic in any way, merely that they should not have psionics as a racial feature-- they should be as naturally psionic as halflings or gnomes.

User avatar
Seethyr
Couatl
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am
Gender: male
Location: The City of Gold

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Seethyr » Fri May 10, 2019 12:55 pm

You kind of encouraged me to share this. It's just a WIP, but maybe you can get some inspiration out of it.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1y_iza ... RTPxQlVo9A

EDIT: This thread encouraged me to add the following abilities to the Mantis-Folk traits.

Chitin Carapace. When unarmored, your AC is 12 + your Dex bonus.

Poison Glands. You have a bite attack which causes 1d4 + Str bonus that does an additional 1d4 poison damage. This poison can also be used to make the resin known as dasl.
All Maztica Alive Netbooks Available in the Link:The Maztica Alive Campaign

Newest Book: TWC6 True World Bestiary II - Monsters A-H

Maztica Alive! Yahoo Group Join Us

User avatar
Icarus
Ogre
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:31 pm
Gender: male
Location: Cape May
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Icarus » Fri May 10, 2019 3:47 pm

FaerieGodfather wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:45 am
I'm not saying that Thri-Kreen should be especially nonpsionic in any way, merely that they should not have psionics as a racial feature ...
Except for the fact that's precisely what you are saying. You specifically are saying they should not have psionics.
FaerieGodfather wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:07 am
Non-Athasian Thri-Kreen... shouldn't have psionic powers.
At any rate, even putting quibbling about semantics aside …
It may surprise you to find that Thri-kreen in general do not have a racial feature giving them psionics. They have it on Athas because every character on Athas has at least some psionic ability, according to the Dark Sun boxed set. Either they are a psionicist, or they have a wild talent. But, it's not the race that gives them that.
On other worlds, thri-kreen have "standard chances" of having wild talents. That has nothing to do with being a "Greyhawk character". That's just what's in the Monstrous Manual.
AD&D 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual, TSR, 1993, p342 wrote:There is a 50% chance that any thri-kreen will have a psionic wild talent."
All non-Athasian thri-kreen specifically have a "standard chance" of having psionics, which is what the Greyhawk passage I quoted refers to.

Even after 2nd Edition, all non-Athasian thri-kreen have "Naturally Psionic" and "Psi-like Abilities" as racial traits. (cf. Expanded Psionics Handbook, 3rd Edition, 2004) There's no reason to presume thri-kreen of Oerth would be any different.

I know I'm citing and referencing a lot of material, and it's somewhat unavoidable when doing so that one may sound like a Rules Lawyer.
That's really not my intent, at all.
There's nothing saying anyone has to go by anyone else's perceptions of what thri-kreen are s'posed to be. And there's nothing saying anyone has to follow published sources. But, in answer to Coronides' original question about what essential features fans would expect, I would imagine fans would expect thri-kreen to follow published sources.
And for the World of Greyhawk, that includes psionic thri-kreen, unless one chooses to purposefully make them different.
"And he did fly,... and he was seen on the wings of the wind."
My online Gallery of Artwork. Take a look at my illustrations!

User avatar
Icarus
Ogre
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:31 pm
Gender: male
Location: Cape May
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Icarus » Fri May 10, 2019 3:49 pm

FaerieGodfather wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 7:45 am
I'm not saying that Thri-Kreen should be especially nonpsionic in any way, merely that they should not have psionics as a racial feature ...
Except for the fact that's precisely what you are saying. You specifically are saying they should not have psionics.
FaerieGodfather wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:07 am
Non-Athasian Thri-Kreen... shouldn't have psionic powers.
At any rate, even putting quibbling about semantics aside …
It may surprise you to find that Thri-kreen in general do not have a racial feature giving them psionics. They have it on Athas because every character on Athas has at least some psionic ability, according to the Dark Sun boxed set. Either they are a psionicist, or they have a wild talent. But, it's not the race that gives them that.
On other worlds, thri-kreen have "standard chances" of having wild talents. That has nothing to do with being a "Greyhawk character". That's just what's in the Monstrous Manual.
AD&D 2nd Edition Monstrous Manual, TSR, 1993, p342 wrote:There is a 50% chance that any thri-kreen will have a psionic wild talent."
All non-Athasian thri-kreen specifically have a "standard chance" of having psionics, which is what the Greyhawk passage I quoted refers to.

Even after 2nd Edition, all non-Athasian thri-kreen have "Naturally Psionic" and "Psi-like Abilities" as racial traits. (cf. Expanded Psionics Handbook, 3rd Edition, 2004) There's no reason to presume thri-kreen of Oerth would be any different.

I know I'm citing and referencing a lot of material, and it's somewhat unavoidable when doing so that one may sound like a Rules Lawyer.
That's really not my intent, at all.
There's nothing saying anyone has to go by anyone else's perceptions of what thri-kreen are s'posed to be. And there's nothing saying anyone has to follow published sources. But, in answer to Coronides' original question about what essential features fans would expect, I would imagine fans would expect thri-kreen to follow published sources.
And for the World of Greyhawk, that includes psionic thri-kreen, unless one chooses to purposefully make them different.
"And he did fly,... and he was seen on the wings of the wind."
My online Gallery of Artwork. Take a look at my illustrations!

zontoxira
Planewalker
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 8:46 pm
Gender: male
Location: Sigil, The Lady's Ward

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by zontoxira » Sat May 11, 2019 6:32 pm

I'd suggest "monstrous form". Their alien physiology amounts for many different behaviours, advantages and restrictions. Examples would be higher natural AC but inability to wear any crafted armour, rings, or clothing suitable for humanoids; the ability to go without water for days but with weakness in water and humid environments; being considered a monstrosity for game purposes etc.
Have a look at my Dark Sun 5e Reconstruction or Planescape 5e Belief System
---
Cager extraordinaire, at your service!
---
"There are no saints in the animal kingdom. Only breakfast, and dinner." - Lorne Malvo

The Dark
Troll
Posts: 431
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:05 pm
Gender: male

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by The Dark » Tue May 21, 2019 5:29 am

Icarus wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 3:49 pm
But, in answer to Coronides' original question about what essential features fans would expect, I would imagine fans would expect thri-kreen to follow published sources.
I agree. And given that the thri-kreen Tiktitik has no psionic powers in SJA2 Skull & Crossbows, I would not expect non-Athasian kreen to automatically have psionics.

User avatar
Icarus
Ogre
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:31 pm
Gender: male
Location: Cape May
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Icarus » Tue May 21, 2019 8:23 pm

The Dark wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 5:29 am
I agree. And given that the thri-kreen Tiktitik has no psionic powers in SJA2 Skull & Crossbows, I would not expect non-Athasian kreen to automatically have psionics.
A.)Unless I'm missing something, no one's saying that all non-Athasian thri-kreen "automatically" have powers.
B.) So, let me get this correct: because one example of a non-Athasian thri-kreen doesn't have psionics, even though there's plenty that do, none should have power?
Despite what the rulebooks say.

Right. Gotcha. Because that makes sense.
By that reasoning, given that the NPC you cite from SJA2, Tiktitik, was a religious zealot bent on converting or slaying the non-believers of the universe, then all thri-kreen should worship the Mantis God of the Eternal Lotus.
"And he did fly,... and he was seen on the wings of the wind."
My online Gallery of Artwork. Take a look at my illustrations!

User avatar
Seethyr
Couatl
Posts: 1323
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am
Gender: male
Location: The City of Gold

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Seethyr » Tue May 21, 2019 9:46 pm

The thri-kreen I have worked out have become a subrace to what I call “Mantis-Folk.” This way, there is room for tohr-kreen, zik-chul and others. With that in mind it could easily cure the psionic/non-psionic issue. Perhaps “psionic thri-kreen” could have some base abilities, but it would have to be balanced by removing other abilities.
All Maztica Alive Netbooks Available in the Link:The Maztica Alive Campaign

Newest Book: TWC6 True World Bestiary II - Monsters A-H

Maztica Alive! Yahoo Group Join Us

KtA
Goblin
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 12:09 am
Gender: male

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by KtA » Sun May 26, 2019 12:23 am

I'm wondering if the extra arms could work something like the loxodon's prehensile trunk in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica?

The centaur's "equine body" feature might also be adaptable -- I think that's the only published 5e PC race that isn't an upright biped.

User avatar
Cromstar
Gnoll
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:58 pm
Gender: male

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Cromstar » Sun May 26, 2019 2:09 am

KtA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:23 am
I'm wondering if the extra arms could work something like the loxodon's prehensile trunk in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica?

The centaur's "equine body" feature might also be adaptable -- I think that's the only published 5e PC race that isn't an upright biped.
No Wemics?

User avatar
Coronoides
Dragon Sage
Posts: 823
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:18 am
Gender: male
Location: Mostly Melbourne Australia
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Coronoides » Sun May 26, 2019 2:36 am

Cromstar wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 2:09 am
KtA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:23 am
I'm wondering if the extra arms could work something like the loxodon's prehensile trunk in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica?

The centaur's "equine body" feature might also be adaptable -- I think that's the only published 5e PC race that isn't an upright biped.
No Wemics?
Wemics would be an easy build for me. Do you think many people want wemics?
Need to convert races to D&D 5e? mathematical analysis of canon races and design rules: http://www.dmsguild.com/product/232813/ ... rs-Toolkit

Conversion & Review of Council of Wryms with dragon PCs compatible with other 5e settings (at level 5+). DRAFT: Book 1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fz4zql2yhlyut ... 8.pdf?dl=0 and Book 2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/0n3i5bki6svae ... 0.pdf?dl=0

User avatar
Cromstar
Gnoll
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:58 pm
Gender: male

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Cromstar » Sun May 26, 2019 3:51 pm

Coronoides wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 2:36 am
Cromstar wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 2:09 am
KtA wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 12:23 am
I'm wondering if the extra arms could work something like the loxodon's prehensile trunk in Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica?

The centaur's "equine body" feature might also be adaptable -- I think that's the only published 5e PC race that isn't an upright biped.
No Wemics?
Wemics would be an easy build for me. Do you think many people want wemics?
I was just responding to 'centaurs are the only non-biped in 5e PC races' comment specifically. Since I know wemics had PC stats in previous editions, I'm somewhat surprised that they wouldn't have gotten a 5e version (and since this was in context of how to design a 5e thri-kreen PC, it would provide something to contrast to centaurs if it existed).

User avatar
Icarus
Ogre
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:31 pm
Gender: male
Location: Cape May
Contact:

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Icarus » Sun May 26, 2019 4:29 pm

This would actually be a great topic for a moderator to break off this thread, and make a new one about wemics!!
I'd love to talk about wemics! :D
Coronoides wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 2:36 am
Cromstar wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 2:09 am
No Wemics?
Wemics would be an easy build for me. Do you think many people want wemics?
Coronides ... I know personally, wemics are one of my favorite races.
I've done a published/posted article on a wemic NPC, done art for them that's featured on mythology.com, I follow The Daily Wemic, etc, etc.

I often get asked about them, but, I don't know if that's just because I'm fond of them, or because people like them.
But, I'd read/buy it, that's for sure! LOL
"And he did fly,... and he was seen on the wings of the wind."
My online Gallery of Artwork. Take a look at my illustrations!

User avatar
Lord Torath
Thri-Kreen Starfarer
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:02 pm
Gender: male
Location: Utah, USA

Re: Thrikreen Essential features for 5e race

Post by Lord Torath » Sun Jul 21, 2019 2:23 am

Off topic: If you're doing wemics, don't forget about dracons.

On topic, it's missile dodging, not missile deflection. Just to be properly pedantic. :P

All thri-kreen (and probably tohr-kreen) gain ancestral knowledge in making and using chatkcha.

Also, originally their poison paralyzed victims on a failed save for a brief time, depending on the size of the victim (Are there any other poisons that affect victims differently based on their size? I can't think of any). The paralysis is probably more important than an extra d4 damage.

Post Reply

Return to “Dark Sun”