[Pathfinder2] Age of Lost Omens

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Tim Baker
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[Pathfinder2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Tim Baker » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:11 am

How does PF2's Age of Lost Omens relate to the setting timeline and adventure paths found in PF1 materials?

Did the timeline updates to the setting cause any of the mechanical changes in the system (like when assassins were eliminated in 2nd Edition AD&D)?

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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Starglim » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:29 am

PF2 assumes that some of the PF1 adventure paths, such as, from what I've seen, Wrath of the Righteous, War for the Crown and Hell's Rebels, have been completed successfully. Others were more along the lines of "prevent this awful thing happening" and the awful thing is not around, so the AP hasn't been assumed to fail. However the lich-king called the Whispering Tyrant has become active and devastated at least one formerly prominent nation.

Several Pathfinder Society organised play scenarios foreshadowed the introduction of goblins as a typical PC race.

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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Tim Baker » Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:06 am

Starglim wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:29 am
Several Pathfinder Society organised play scenarios foreshadowed the introduction of goblins as a typical PC race.
Thanks for the additional information. Could you elaborate on the goblins? Did their culture change over time? How did the OP scenarios introduce this change?

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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Big Mac » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:58 am

Tim Baker wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:11 am
How does PF2's Age of Lost Omens relate to the setting timeline and adventure paths found in PF1 materials?

Did the timeline updates to the setting cause any of the mechanical changes in the system (like when assassins were eliminated in 2nd Edition AD&D)?
According to the Age of Lost Omens article on Pathfinder Wiki, it's not good news for the Church of Aroden.

(But Erik Mona did say that Aroden was "kind of a dick". ;) )
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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:10 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:58 am
According to the Age of Lost Omens article on Pathfinder Wiki, it's not good news for the Church of Aroden.
True enough, but that isn't something new to 2E. Golarion has been ensconced in the Age of Lost Omens ever since 1E. It is just that 2E has opted to (clarify?) use that as the title for the revised 2E campaign setting book.

Essentially, 2E is just continuing straight on from the timeline of 1E where- sort of "officially unofficially" the timeline advanced at the same rate as the real world (RW year + 700). As Starglim notes, they assume positive outcomes from all of the APs, and basically assume all 1E APs have taken place, although they may only specifically reference events from certain of them- at least in the initial campaign book. For instance, Varisia is greatly changed from the 1E Campaign Setting book based primarily on the events of the Runelords Trilogy (Rise, Shattered Star, Return). There is a new independent nation within northern Cheliax Hell's Rebels, etc.

Mechanically, it doesn't appear as if anything has changed on the level of FR's Avatar trilogy, vis a vis changes to powers and magic, etc. I think the assumption is just that any mechanical differences between 1E and 2E have always been present, and should be either ignored or left to the DM to explain as they choose.
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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Tim Baker » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:16 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:10 pm
Golarion has been ensconced in the Age of Lost Omens ever since 1E. It is just that 2E has opted to (clarify?) use that as the title for the revised 2E campaign setting book.
Ah, that's super helpful. As someone who's never had a chance to dive into Golarion lore, I thought the Age of Lost Omens was a new thing, as I'd never heard it referenced until the lead-up to 2E.
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:10 pm
Essentially, 2E is just continuing straight on from the timeline of 1E where- sort of "officially unofficially" the timeline advanced at the same rate as the real world (RW year + 700). As Starglim notes, they assume positive outcomes from all of the APs, and basically assume all 1E APs have taken place, although they may only specifically reference events from certain of them- at least in the initial campaign book. For instance, Varisia is greatly changed from the 1E Campaign Setting book based primarily on the events of the Runelords Trilogy (Rise, Shattered Star, Return). There is a new independent nation within northern Cheliax Hell's Rebels, etc.
That makes sense. If 1E players have run through those adventure paths, they were likely successful, and want to see how the world changed because of their actions. It helps to avoid some of the frustration players felt when D&D editions essentially invalidated their characters' actions by "blowing up the world."
Cthulhudrew wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:10 pm
Mechanically, it doesn't appear as if anything has changed on the level of FR's Avatar trilogy, vis a vis changes to powers and magic, etc. I think the assumption is just that any mechanical differences between 1E and 2E have always been present, and should be either ignored or left to the DM to explain as they choose.
I've talked to many players who are big fans of the setting. This sounds like a good approach to me. It can be hard enough to switch mechanics, but it can be even harder if you also force a setting shift.

Thanks for all the valuable info.

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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:21 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:10 pm
Mechanically, it doesn't appear as if anything has changed on the level of FR's Avatar trilogy, vis a vis changes to powers and magic, etc. I think the assumption is just that any mechanical differences between 1E and 2E have always been present, and should be either ignored or left to the DM to explain as they choose.
I attended several of the Paizo panels at GenCon via Twitch. While they were taking questions I asked if there were any world altering events between the two editions. The response was no.
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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Tim Baker » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:26 pm

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:21 pm
I attended several of the Paizo panels at GenCon via Twitch. While they were taking questions I asked if there were any world altering events between the two editions. The response was no.
That clears things up nicely. Thanks!

I'm still a bit curious about the comment on organized play hinting that goblins were shifting toward a playable race. How long ago did those seeds begin getting planted? How did they point toward where we're at today?

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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:24 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:26 pm
I'm still a bit curious about the comment on organized play hinting that goblins were shifting toward a playable race. How long ago did those seeds begin getting planted? How did they point toward where we're at today?
Due to how unique goblins are in Pathfinder, specifically to Golarion, many players had an interest in playing them. The module We Be Goblins was the first one in PF1E to cater to an all Goblin party. Because Paizo listens to the fans and heard how popular the race is and how many people like playing Goblins, Paizo decided to make the race Core in 2E.
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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Tim Baker » Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:55 am

Angel Tarragon wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:24 pm
Due to how unique goblins are in Pathfinder, specifically to Golarion, many players had an interest in playing them. The module We Be Goblins was the first one in PF1E to cater to an all Goblin party. Because Paizo listens to the fans and heard how popular the race is and how many people like playing Goblins, Paizo decided to make the race Core in 2E.
That explains the meta-explanation, which is good to know. Was there anything in the lore leading up to the 2E release that explained why (some?) goblins were more likely to work (fairly) well with a party of other races? That's what Starglim hinted at above, and I'm curious about the details.

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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Angel Tarragon » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:22 am

Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:55 am
That's what Starglim hinted at above, and I'm curious about the details.
Unfortunately I don't have those details. Hopefully someone else can help you.
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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:22 am

Michael Sayre from Paizo's Organized Play lays out a number of progressive scenarios in this post on their forums.

I'm guessing Starglint might have been referring specifically to the Treason's Chains OP scenario, which has a goblin who has been buying goblins out of slavery and setting them up with regular jobs in various locations around the globe.
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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Tim Baker » Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:12 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:22 am
I'm guessing Starglint might have been referring specifically to the Treason's Chains OP scenario, which has a goblin who has been buying goblins out of slavery and setting them up with regular jobs in various locations around the globe.
Good find. I suspect you're right.

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Re: [PF2] Age of Lost Omens

Post by Starglim » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:55 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:22 am
Michael Sayre from Paizo's Organized Play lays out a number of progressive scenarios in this post on their forums.

I'm guessing Starglint might have been referring specifically to the Treason's Chains OP scenario, which has a goblin who has been buying goblins out of slavery and setting them up with regular jobs in various locations around the globe.
Yes, that's one example. Breath of the Dragonskull introduces a band of goblins who employ their love of fire to manage forests responsibly by controlled burning. Recently, I think there are one or two more that I haven't been through personally, besides isolated examples much earlier that encouraged less than murderous interactions with specific goblins. It's not that goblin culture as a whole has changed, as much that (apparently) they always had the potential for individuals or groups to express their nature in less psychopathic ways.

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