Modification to the paladin

Discuss Troll Lord Game's rules set here.

Moderator: Blacky the Blackball

Post Reply
User avatar
Philosopher
Cloud Giant
Posts: 1372
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:05 pm
Gender: male
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Modification to the paladin

Post by Philosopher » Sat Jun 19, 2010 3:55 pm

I've always been a little disappointed in the C&C paladin. Compared to the AD&D paladin, it loses out on spellcasting and fighter abilities (such as extra attacks per round), while retaining the hefty XP requirements. It doesn't strike me as a bad class, but it could use a little something extra. Here are a couple of suggestions, both of which involve a modification of how smite evil works. I'm love some feedback.

As it stands, a 9th level paladin gains the ability to smite evil with one melee attack, once per day. Her Charisma bonus is added to the attack roll, and her level is added to the damage. My issue with this is that it's a signature ability that could easily be entirely wasted for the whole day with one poor roll.

My first proposal is based on how smite evil works in Pathfinder. Basically, rather than getting smite evil on one attack, the paladin selects a target (who must be evil) and gains the same bonuses described above against that target, until the target is dead or until the paladin rests and regains use of the ability.

The second proposal is to give the paladin a flat bonus to hit and damage against all evil opponents. The bonuses could be something like +2 to attacks and +4 to damage, and these do not increase with level (the exact numbers could be changed, +2 and +4 were just off the top of my head).

With both of these suggestions, the paladin is much more likely to get plenty of use out of this ability, which a high level paladin should.

Thoughts?
- Selman

User avatar
Dave L
Storm Giant
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:58 pm
Gender: male
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by Dave L » Sat Jun 19, 2010 4:15 pm

Another option could be to introduce the ability at an earlier level, so that by level 9 the paladin can use smite evil multiple times, say 3 times per day.

I like the option of using the Pathfinder ruling though.

User avatar
Philosopher
Cloud Giant
Posts: 1372
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:05 pm
Gender: male
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by Philosopher » Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:16 am

Dave L wrote:Another option could be to introduce the ability at an earlier level, so that by level 9 the paladin can use smite evil multiple times, say 3 times per day.
That could work. Or, perhaps give the paladin the regular smite at 5th level, say, which then upgrades to the Pathfinder version at 9th? Hm... I kinda like that.
- Selman

User avatar
Dave L
Storm Giant
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:58 pm
Gender: male
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by Dave L » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:28 am

Philosopher wrote: That could work. Or, perhaps give the paladin the regular smite at 5th level, say, which then upgrades to the Pathfinder version at 9th? Hm... I kinda like that.
Nice combination.

I think I'd go regular at 5th, 2 x regular at 7th, and then Pathfinder at 9th.

Simply because that fits with 3.5 a bit better. :)

User avatar
Philosopher
Cloud Giant
Posts: 1372
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:05 pm
Gender: male
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by Philosopher » Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:15 pm

Dave L wrote:
Philosopher wrote: That could work. Or, perhaps give the paladin the regular smite at 5th level, say, which then upgrades to the Pathfinder version at 9th? Hm... I kinda like that.
Nice combination.

I think I'd go regular at 5th, 2 x regular at 7th, and then Pathfinder at 9th.

Simply because that fits with 3.5 a bit better. :)
My one issue with that is that at 9th level the ability does not merely improve, but it changes in an important way. At 7th level, the paladin would be able to smite two completely separate opponents in two completely separate encounters, but she would only be able to smite one person (albeit potentially multiple times) per day. Overall, I think the Pathfinder version is better, but there's still a loss, which is kind of odd.

How about this - once per day, the paladin can designate one evil opponent as the target of smite attacks, until the opponent is dead or until the paladin rests. At 5th level, she can smite the target only once. At 7th level, only twice. At 9th level, she can smite the target an unlimited number of times.

I think I may prefer these abilities to be spread out to levels 3, 6, and 9, instead of 5, 7, and 9. Or maybe smite once at 3rd, twice at 5th, thrice at 7th, unlimited at 9th? Come to think of it, perhaps it can be four times at 9th, and it increases by one extra smite every odd level. I'd still keep it as only affecting one target per day.

There are so many ways to go here. This will require some thought. Thanks for your suggestions, Dave!
- Selman

User avatar
Dave L
Storm Giant
Posts: 1591
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:58 pm
Gender: male
Location: Plymouth, England

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by Dave L » Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:48 pm

Philosopher wrote: There are so many ways to go here. This will require some thought. Thanks for your suggestions, Dave!
No problem - I'm playing a level 7 3.5e paladin at the moment, so the topic immediately piqued my curiosity. :)

I do prefer the Pathfinder method as the eventual enhanced version, however you decide to build up to that.

rabindranath72
White Dragon
Posts: 2617
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:10 pm
Gender: male

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by rabindranath72 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:49 am

If I had to improve the Paladin, I would give them one or two Knight abilities.

User avatar
Philosopher
Cloud Giant
Posts: 1372
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:05 pm
Gender: male
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by Philosopher » Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:25 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:If I had to improve the Paladin, I would give them one or two Knight abilities.
The only reason I avoided that is that it would step on the knights toes. In any case, which knight abilities do you think would work best with the paladin?
- Selman

rabindranath72
White Dragon
Posts: 2617
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:10 pm
Gender: male

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by rabindranath72 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:31 am

Philosopher wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:If I had to improve the Paladin, I would give them one or two Knight abilities.
The only reason I avoided that is that it would step on the knights toes. In any case, which knight abilities do you think would work best with the paladin?
Well, many classes already step on other classes' toes, so IMO it would not be something terribly unbalancing. I would perhaps choose among Charisma-dependent abilities.

User avatar
Boddynock
Gnomish Ambassador
Posts: 598
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:33 am
Gender: male
Contact:

Re: Modification to the paladin

Post by Boddynock » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:35 pm

I've started to pick up Castles and Crusades and decided to give the Paladin a couple of boosts. Especially since he doesn't get multiple attacks or even the best Bonus to Hit.

Smite Evil: Starting at level 3 the Paladin can designate holy vengeance upon a creature of evil alignment. This Smite ability lasts until the target is dead and adds the Paladins Charisma Bonus to the attack and his Level to damage. At 6th level he can smite twice a day, at 3rd level he can smite 3 times. This ability can be used once per battle

Lay on Hands: The Paladin channels divine energy to heal the wounded. Lay on Hands heals the target 2 hit points. The Paladin can also use this ability to heal others but cannot divide healing. A Paladin can use Lay on Hands a number of times per day equal to half his class level (thus a 4th level Paladin can Lay on hands 2/per day
Check out my blog: 'The Gnomish Embassy'

My Wattpad Profile

Support your local gnome!

Boddynock Stotch - 17th level Gnome Bard of Far Shore, Isle of Dread - Savage Tide Adventure Path

Post Reply

Return to “Castles & Crusades”