Further AQ Resources.

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thorr-kan
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Further AQ Resources.

Post by thorr-kan »

The AQ canon is well established and gives almost endless opportunities for adventure.

Additional materials are always welcome, though. One's the Complete Book of Necromancers. It even calls out sites in Zakhara by name.

So I was wandering through the HR series and noticed HR7 The Crusades scans almost seamlessly with AQ. It even calls out some AQ kits. This all makes sense when you realize it's written by Steve Kurtz, the same author of CompNecro and other AQ supplements.

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by Jorkens »

I don't know, there are some things that can be taken from Crusades, but to me it isn't a good fit. It takes its historical setting far to serious to really fit Zakhara. I would probably plunder Ylarum, Anauroch and a couple of modules to expand the setting, maybe also using GURPS Arabian Nights.

One thing that would have been nice though is a few more kits. Those that are in the books are great, but with kits being mandatory a few more would be great.

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by Nate Christen »

Jorkens wrote:One thing that would have been nice though is a few more kits. Those that are in the books are great, but with kits being mandatory a few more would be great.
Do you see any archetypal characters from the source material that have been overlooked?

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by agathokles »

Wizards have enough kits, I'd say. For the other classes, some additional kits might have helped, but not that much -- all other class groups have six kits each. Which kind of archetype do you miss? I'd have appreciated a seafaring rogue kit, but that's about all I can think of.

Ylaruam and Anauroch are good ideas, although more as variants, IMO.

Given the relevance of some Inner Planar beings, such as Genies, some Planescape materials can be useful (especially the Guide to the Inner Plane and the PS MCA III)

GP

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by thorr-kan »

The Warrior Priest and Monastic Warrior kits work both as outlanders new to Zakhara or as refinements over the Faris kit. They'd be perfect for characters from the League of the Pantheon.

For further wizard kits, CompNecro and CompSha'ir should meet your needs. In fact, I've often thought the kits from CompNecro would make excellent kits for a ghul lord.

(Yes, ghul lord's a kit. But let's be honest: the mechanics for it and for the sha'ir are both different enough from mage mechanics to warrant a new subclass.)

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by Jorkens »

I am more thinking that the cultural kits should be expanded. border barbarians, people of the Ruined Kingdoms, street urchin of the cities, dancers, caravanner etc. Also the trader should be made into a sub-class of its own to fit with the central role of these in 1001 Nights. Sages, occultists, religious warriors, knights etc would be other ideas.

Of course one can make these one self, but that goes with more or less everything. Its just one of the two areas where I think the setting could use a bit extra, that and further development on the idea that all races are integrated in the culture. Its a great idea that more or less never was seen again outside of the City of Delights box.

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by thorr-kan »

Jorkens wrote:I am more thinking that the cultural kits should be expanded. border barbarians, people of the Ruined Kingdoms, street urchin of the cities, dancers, caravanner etc. Also the trader should be made into a sub-class of its own to fit with the central role of these in 1001 Nights. Sages, occultists, religious warriors, knights etc would be other ideas.
The rest of the HR series could be poached for some of this detail. Celts for your barbarians, Rome for your urban dwellers. I think most of the rest might be best suited by NWP choices and roleplaying though; kits don't really provide that level of detain in AQ.

Oh! You could also poach kits for "Heroes of the Mists." While it's for Ravenloft, the kits there aren't too over powered.
Jorkens wrote:Of course one can make these one self, but that goes with more or less everything. Its just one of the two areas where I think the setting could use a bit extra, that and further development on the idea that all races are integrated in the culture. Its a great idea that more or less never was seen again outside of the City of Delights box.
Trader class from Birthright for your needs.

I've always wanted to run a flame elementalist with the Unseen kit from CompSha'ir, using that kit's ability to have a special ability from another kit. I'd poach the merchant-rogue's company ability. "Me and my friends have gotta...problem with da Flamedeath Fellowship."

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by Big Mac »

thorr-kan wrote:The AQ canon is well established and gives almost endless opportunities for adventure.

Additional materials are always welcome, though. One's the Complete Book of Necromancers. It even calls out sites in Zakhara by name.
I already heard good things about DMGR7 The Complete Book of Necromancers from Al-Qadim fans, although the impresion I was given was that it was more of a "future Zakhara" than the one in Al-Qadim. (I was kind of wondering if DMGR7 would line up with the post-Spellplagued Forgotten Realms.)
thorr-kan wrote:So I was wandering through the HR series and noticed HR7 The Crusades scans almost seamlessly with AQ. It even calls out some AQ kits. This all makes sense when you realize it's written by Steve Kurtz, the same author of CompNecro and other AQ supplements.
The back cover blurb of HR7 The Crusades Campaign Sourcebook says that it contains a campaign setting called "Outremer". Would that land fit into Zakhara (or between Zakhara, Faerun and Kara-Tur)?
Jorkens wrote:I don't know, there are some things that can be taken from Crusades, but to me it isn't a good fit. It takes its historical setting far to serious to really fit Zakhara.
I considered buying all the HR books, when they first came out, but the way that they seemed to be serious did put me off back then. But I bet there are some GMs that would want to play Al-Qadim (or other 2e campaign settings) a bit more serious than they were originally written. How much of HR7 do you think might be usable to someone that wanted to retain the original flavour of Zakhara?

Over on the D&D Classics page for HR7, Shannon Appelcline says that other Historical Reference books were paired up:
Shannon Appelcline at D&D Classics wrote:Not Paired, But… Many of the other Historical References were paired so that GMs could have adversarial cultures to use against each other. That wasn't the case with The Crusades, mostly due to the line's cancelation. If the line had continued, TSR was considering pairing The Crusades with a book drawn from their own Arabic setting, Al-Qadim Arabian Adventures (1992) - which they recommend within the pages of The Crusades. A possible Balkans book could alternatively have provided Mongols for the Crusaders to battle.
Given that Al-Qadim is mentioned in the book's introduction (which you can see on the D&D Classic's page) I'm guessing that HR8 would have been a historical Arabic book, but with an Islamic religion rather than the religion from Al-Qadim. I wonder if Steve Kurtz did any prep work on HR8, before the line was cancelled.
thorr-kan wrote:
Jorkens wrote:I am more thinking that the cultural kits should be expanded. border barbarians, people of the Ruined Kingdoms, street urchin of the cities, dancers, caravanner etc. Also the trader should be made into a sub-class of its own to fit with the central role of these in 1001 Nights. Sages, occultists, religious warriors, knights etc would be other ideas.
The rest of the HR series could be poached for some of this detail. Celts for your barbarians, Rome for your urban dwellers. I think most of the rest might be best suited by NWP choices and roleplaying though; kits don't really provide that level of detain in AQ.

Oh! You could also poach kits for "Heroes of the Mists." While it's for Ravenloft, the kits there aren't too over powered.
Shannon Appelcline actually said there was an article in Dragon Magazine issue 249 that ties all the Historical Reference books to Masques of the Red Death. The article is called "Seeds of Evil". I'm not sure if would help you import Ravenloft ideas.
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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by Jorkens »

thorr-kan wrote:
Jorkens wrote:I am more thinking that the cultural kits should be expanded. border barbarians, people of the Ruined Kingdoms, street urchin of the cities, dancers, caravanner etc. Also the trader should be made into a sub-class of its own to fit with the central role of these in 1001 Nights. Sages, occultists, religious warriors, knights etc would be other ideas.
The rest of the HR series could be poached for some of this detail. Celts for your barbarians, Rome for your urban dwellers. I think most of the rest might be best suited by NWP choices and roleplaying though; kits don't really provide that level of detain in AQ.

Oh! You could also poach kits for "Heroes of the Mists." While it's for Ravenloft, the kits there aren't too over powered.
Jorkens wrote:Of course one can make these one self, but that goes with more or less everything. Its just one of the two areas where I think the setting could use a bit extra, that and further development on the idea that all races are integrated in the culture. Its a great idea that more or less never was seen again outside of the City of Delights box.
Trader class from Birthright for your needs.

I've always wanted to run a flame elementalist with the Unseen kit from CompSha'ir, using that kit's ability to have a special ability from another kit. I'd poach the merchant-rogue's company ability. "Me and my friends have gotta...problem with da Flamedeath Fellowship."
To me the other HR books are really not useful for an Al Quadim campaign, as they have nothing at all to do with either the historic era or the fantasy genre it is combined with. You can of course use ideas, but that goes for everything.

As for kits, I am more thinking of kits that should have been done for the setting in the first place, there are plenty that could be adapted from other sources such as the HB series, but I would have liked them to be more ingrained in the setting.

The trader class might be interesting, but Birthright is unfortunately the one TSR setting I know next to nothing about as I have never seen a product.

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

Post by Jorkens »

Big Mac wrote:
Jorkens wrote:I don't know, there are some things that can be taken from Crusades, but to me it isn't a good fit. It takes its historical setting far to serious to really fit Zakhara.
I considered buying all the HR books, when they first came out, but the way that they seemed to be serious did put me off back then. But I bet there are some GMs that would want to play Al-Qadim (or other 2e campaign settings) a bit more serious than they were originally written. How much of HR7 do you think might be usable to someone that wanted to retain the original flavour of Zakhara?
I should probably mention that I am not a fan of the series, as I don't think the Ad&d system is all that good for purely historic games, there are plenty of other systems that work better. In my opinion the books should have focused more on the idea of combining the myths of the era with the game system. The Viking book did this and that one is really, really good, but the other ones are a bit hit and miss. I like the Celts book, but it should have focused a bit more on game mechanics even if it does a pretty good job of using mythic and fantasy elements.

I personally don't see much use for HR7 in Zakhara, as the whole crusading idea is foreign to the setting. As with the rest of the series it also suffer a bit in the internet era in that much of the information (which is somewhat light in the first place) is easily access without searching specific, physical books. So if you are a collector you might get the series as a whole, but the only ones I would recommend are Vikings and Celts. But other people might disagree with me, so if you are really interested you might give it a quick look.

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Re: Further AQ Resources.

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Jorkens wrote:How much of HR7 do you think might be usable to someone that wanted to retain the original flavour of Zakhara?
I should probably mention that I am not a fan of the series, as I don't think the Ad&d system is all that good for purely historic games, there are plenty of other systems that work better. In my opinion the books should have focused more on the idea of combining the myths of the era with the game system. The Viking book did this and that one is really, really good, but the other ones are a bit hit and miss. I like the Celts book, but it should have focused a bit more on game mechanics even if it does a pretty good job of using mythic and fantasy elements.[/quote]

I didn't like the idea of historical campaign settings either. I originally thought there was no fantasy, at all, with the HR line, and that put me off them a lot.
Jorkens wrote:I personally don't see much use for HR7 in Zakhara, as the whole crusading idea is foreign to the setting. As with the rest of the series it also suffer a bit in the internet era in that much of the information (which is somewhat light in the first place) is easily access without searching specific, physical books. So if you are a collector you might get the series as a whole, but the only ones I would recommend are Vikings and Celts. But other people might disagree with me, so if you are really interested you might give it a quick look.
I'm no collector. I'm trying to buy up things that dovertail with the products I want to use, but I see no point in depriving another fan of owning something and then having the thing sit around not used. I did recently buy HR6 Age of Heroes Campaign Sourcebook. But that was because it was cheap and I thought I could grab ideas for Greatspace (a Spelljammer crystal sphere from SJA3 Crystal Spheres) from it.

I like Al-Qadim to be located on the same world as Forgotten Realms. So I think that, if I was going to try to use HR7 The Crusades Campaign Sourcebook with Al-Qadim, I would be looking the continent to the north-east of Zakhara, to see if the themes of Outremer could be transplanted onto one of the nations between Faerun and Kara-Tur. But the core story of Outremer wanting to seize the Holy Land from the Saracens and the Saracens responding with a Jihad would need to totally be rebooted to make it have themes that fit in with the Realms.

I'm sure that could be done (and as you said, the Internet has a lot of that information for free) but I wonder how hard it would be to shoehorn HR7 into the Al-Qadim area.
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