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Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:29 pm
by Big Mac
Jorkens wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
But D&D did name a character class "Barbarian" and the tagline of The Horde boxed set is "Barbarian Campaign Setting".
Which was a bit funny as they had just removed the class with the 2nd edition.
D&D is full of "about turns". It kind of makes cross-rule migration of campaigns a bit difficult (unless you stick to the four major classes and ignore all the ones that might be deemed "expendable" during the next edition change.
Jorkens wrote:One more thing that works against the Horde is that the southern Realms has the plains of the Shaar (idiotically shrunk in 3ed.) which has its own nomad cultures that in many ways are more interesting as they are not so heavily tied to earthly culture.
Do you think that anything could be raided from Shaar material, to improve The Horde?

Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:38 pm
by Jorkens
Big Mac wrote:
Jorkens wrote:One more thing that works against the Horde is that the southern Realms has the plains of the Shaar (idiotically shrunk in 3ed.) which has its own nomad cultures that in many ways are more interesting as they are not so heavily tied to earthly culture.
Do you think that anything could be raided from Shaar material, to improve The Horde?
Probably, as the Shining South is one of the two 3ed. Realms books I actually enjoy, I have it handy here somewhere, I will have a look later if I get the time. Maybe the nomads of the area could be examples of hill and mountain dwelling tribes that lived along the borders, and the civilized countries near the coast could be plundered for Murghom and Semphar. It would be something that would make the area drift away from the central Asian theme though.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:40 pm
by Princess Strega
Big Mac wrote:But D&D did name a character class "Barbarian" and the tagline of The Horde boxed set is "Barbarian Campaign Setting".
It sure isn't part of the Core of AD&D 2E, but TSR did splat it out.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:49 pm
by Cthulhudrew
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:It sure isn't part of the Core of AD&D 2E, but TSR did splat it out.
They eventually re-added the Assassin and Monk back into 2E as well, with the Scarlet Brotherhood supplement. Flip-floppers. :P

Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:37 pm
by Big Mac
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Jorkens wrote:But D&D did name a character class "Barbarian" and the tagline of The Horde boxed set is "Barbarian Campaign Setting".
It sure isn't part of the Core of AD&D 2E, but TSR did splat it out.
I said that (not Jorkens) but I get what you are trying to say.

I wonder if The Complete Barbarian's Handbook was to The Horde, what The Complete Psionics Handbook was to Dark Sun. Is there anything in CBH that can be used to expand on what is in The Horde boxed set?

EDIT: The Horde came out in 1990, while The Complete Barbarian's Handbook came out in 1995, so the situation is the reverse of Dark Sun and The Complete Psionics Handbook.

EDIT2: I've started a new thread called: Can Complete Barbarian's Handbook be raided?

Re: The Horde

Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 9:59 am
by Jorkens
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Big Mac wrote:But D&D did name a character class "Barbarian" and the tagline of The Horde boxed set is "Barbarian Campaign Setting".
It sure isn't part of the Core of AD&D 2E, but TSR did splat it out.
As mentioned, that book came out years later. And although all the old classes (except the acrobat?) was brought back in one form or another the barbarian was the only one that was deleted right before a setting using the name as part of its cover. Probably just a coincidence, but I have sometimes wondered if the somewhat lacking information on the tuigan themselves within the box might be a result of this change.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:56 pm
by Big Mac
Jorkens wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Big Mac wrote:But D&D did name a character class "Barbarian" and the tagline of The Horde boxed set is "Barbarian Campaign Setting".
It sure isn't part of the Core of AD&D 2E, but TSR did splat it out.
As mentioned, that book came out years later. And although all the old classes (except the acrobat?) was brought back in one form or another the barbarian was the only one that was deleted right before a setting using the name as part of its cover. Probably just a coincidence, but I have sometimes wondered if the somewhat lacking information on the tuigan themselves within the box might be a result of this change.
That makes me wonder how different The Horde might have been if it was published under 1e, 3e or 4e.

Would they have made a bigger deal of the barbarian aspects and had a lot of things like kits, prestige classes or themes to do barbarian stuff for different tribes in different ways?

I suppose that 1e, would have been more light on the rules, as it never had kits. 3e would probably have had regional feats and several barbarian PrCs and we have seen that 4e has had a Hordelands Nomad Character Theme.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:41 am
by night_druid
Jorkens wrote:One more thing that works against the Horde is that the southern Realms has the plains of the Shaar (idiotically shrunk in 3ed.) which has its own nomad cultures that in many ways are more interesting as they are not so heavily tied to earthly culture.
Don't forget similar horse-nomad barbarian cultures, including the Nars, the barbarians of The Ride, and some of the barbarian tribes of the Western Heartlands. :P

Re: The Horde

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:21 am
by Jorkens
It would probably have been an advantage for kits to have been included in the Horde. The same goes for more information on religion, magic and such. Wasn't there an article on Wizards page giving further information on the Horde in 3ed. come to think of it?

The great thing about the other faeruian horse nomads is that they were never given much detail, so their culture and background is more or less open to interpretation. And when speaking of the barbarians of the Ride, I think there's a pretty good fan version written by Halidan in Candlekeep somewhere. its probably in the Travelers Notebook

Re: The Horde

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:00 pm
by Big Mac
Jorkens wrote:It would probably have been an advantage for kits to have been included in the Horde. The same goes for more information on religion, magic and such. Wasn't there an article on Wizards page giving further information on the Horde in 3ed. come to think of it?
I'll have to try to find that and drop it in the Other The Horde Websites (& Free Downloads) thread.
Jorkens wrote:The great thing about the other faeruian horse nomads is that they were never given much detail, so their culture and background is more or less open to interpretation. And when speaking of the barbarians of the Ride, I think there's a pretty good fan version written by Halidan in Candlekeep somewhere. its probably in the Travelers Notebook
If you step back a bit from the "real world" culture, and concentrate on the central theme, someone else can often put a fanon culture onto the idea and make it seem more realistic, without feeling like a cheesy carbon copy.

Perhaps if The Horde had started during 1e and had been refined over 2e and 3e, we might have seen a lot of Dragon and Dungeon articles that later got incorporated back into the core book of the setting.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:33 am
by Jorkens
Sorry I cant help more, I would ask at Candlekeep, someone there is bound to know where it is located. I thought I might have it myself, but it seems like the WotC web-articles were not among the things I transferred to this computer.

I would prefer to see the "real world" elements lessened in general in faerun and the Horde is probably the easiest area to do that with anyway. some more mixing of monsters ( the borders of habitation between the various main areas of the Forgotten Realms are a bit strange), some originality with the Semphar, Thesk and Murghom areas, some more details on the Raumvira and a little "realmsifying" of the Tuigan themselves and we could have a very interesting region. But then there is always the danger of going so far with the changes that it feels foreign to others view of the Realms of course.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:42 pm
by Big Mac
Jorkens wrote:Sorry I cant help more, I would ask at Candlekeep, someone there is bound to know where it is located. I thought I might have it myself, but it seems like the WotC web-articles were not among the things I transferred to this computer.
I've had a search around, but can not find anything (apart from Realmswatch: Ed Says: Geography which is already in the links sticky I pointed you at). If you could remember the actual name of the article that might help.
Jorkens wrote:I would prefer to see the "real world" elements lessened in general in faerun and the Horde is probably the easiest area to do that with anyway. some more mixing of monsters ( the borders of habitation between the various main areas of the Forgotten Realms are a bit strange), some originality with the Semphar, Thesk and Murghom areas, some more details on the Raumvira and a little "realmsifying" of the Tuigan themselves and we could have a very interesting region. But then there is always the danger of going so far with the changes that it feels foreign to others view of the Realms of course.
I have no problem with real-world influences being toned down. If things are similar to real world things, but also different, they are less predictable.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:43 pm
by Jorkens
Big Mac wrote:
Jorkens wrote:Sorry I cant help more, I would ask at Candlekeep, someone there is bound to know where it is located. I thought I might have it myself, but it seems like the WotC web-articles were not among the things I transferred to this computer.
I've had a search around, but can not find anything (apart from Realmswatch: Ed Says: Geography which is already in the links sticky I pointed you at). If you could remember the actual name of the article that might help.
Sorry, a bit embarrassing. It seems like I was thinking about the web-article for Dragon # 349. ( Paizo and WotC has always been mixed to me) which is already among the links I see.

Re: The Horde

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:05 am
by Big Mac
Jorkens wrote:Sorry, a bit embarrassing. It seems like I was thinking about the web-article for Dragon # 349. ( Paizo and WotC has always been mixed to me) which is already among the links I see.
Don't worry about it. D&D is a confusing product line.

Other resources (old or new) will probably turn up over time. We can build up the links sticky as we go along.