Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

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Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Thorf » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:48 pm

Great news - today the Calidar Kickstarter reached its second stretch goal, in the process unlocking the second poster map! :D What's more, it's the hex map. This will be Bruce's first poster hex map in many years, and of course my first ever.

I have posted some preview hexes over at my blog. Please have a look and let me know what you think.

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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Morfie » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:17 pm

What is the difference between the light brown and dark brown mountains? Is it to determine height?

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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Havard » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:43 pm

Loving it! :)

Cant wait for this to be mine..

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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:09 am

Interesting. There are also gradations of color in the jungle mountain hexes, too. Could these be to fit the hexes into more accurate biomes than the old TSR hex system? IE, lowland rainforest, montane rainforest, alpine mountains, subalpine mountains, etc.?

If so, that's a really cool idea. It's actually something I was thinking about doing if I ever got around to doing more with an Oltec Gazetteer; there are so many gradations of ecological climates in the South American regions that the Oltecs are largely based around, it seems a shame to limit their maps to just a few biomes.
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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Ambreville » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:24 am

There are a lot of details for the hex maps being worked out right now. Most of the effort so far has been on the natural maps, because we need those before we can produce hex maps -- which are based upon the natural maps. There will be some pushing and pulling as regards practical issues vs. added hex map detail, as well as style. Here is a good place to let us know what you'd like to see in those hex maps (or what changes you really don't want to see). These are all helpful indications for us.
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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Chimpman » Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:52 am

I'd actually like to see a completely unique set of hexes for Calidar. The mountains are similar, but different enough. I think I'd like to see something different with the hills. Some other ideas for consideration:

- named peaks. It would be really cool to see the named peaks delineated from the rest of the mountain range.
- new hexes for magical terrain or features - for example where Seitha can be found.
- new forest hexes for evergreen and deciduous forests. Perhaps even special hexes for taiga or boreal forests
- hexes or icons for features that are important to airships?
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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Thorf » Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:50 am

Morfie wrote:What is the difference between the light brown and dark brown mountains? Is it to determine height?
Yes - there are two levels of mountains, low and high. It's just a way to give mountain ranges a little more of a relief feel.
Cthulhudrew wrote:Interesting. There are also gradations of color in the jungle mountain hexes, too. Could these be to fit the hexes into more accurate biomes than the old TSR hex system? IE, lowland rainforest, montane rainforest, alpine mountains, subalpine mountains, etc.?
That's the general idea, though I'm not sure how far we will go in representing biomes versus traditional hex art. Do you have any recommendations for this, Andrew?

Currently the hexes are basically just Jungle, Jungle Hills and Jungle Mountains.
If so, that's a really cool idea. It's actually something I was thinking about doing if I ever got around to doing more with an Oltec Gazetteer; there are so many gradations of ecological climates in the South American regions that the Oltecs are largely based around, it seems a shame to limit their maps to just a few biomes.
What kind of hexes would you want? Bearing in mind that it's necessary to keep the overall set of hexes limited to a reasonable number...
Chimpman wrote:I'd actually like to see a completely unique set of hexes for Calidar. The mountains are similar, but different enough. I think I'd like to see something different with the hills. Some other ideas for consideration:

- named peaks. It would be really cool to see the named peaks delineated from the rest of the mountain range.
- new hexes for magical terrain or features - for example where Seitha can be found.
- new forest hexes for evergreen and deciduous forests. Perhaps even special hexes for taiga or boreal forests
- hexes or icons for features that are important to airships?
Thanks for your input, John - it's very much appreciated as always. :D

Both the mountains and the hills are completely new art, although I wasn't able to come up with anything radically different for the hills that I was happy with. So I settled on a slightly different style of art, implying the gullies and ravines in the side of hills and mountains.

The symbol for named peaks is in the preview image already - and there are two versions, one for low peaks, the other for higher peaks. The volcano symbol will likely be based on these.

You're right, we're going to need new resource hexes, although some of that can surely be done using the mine symbol with an appropriate label. It depends on how it's collected, really.

I have already done new forest hexes, but I'm not entirely happy with them yet. I also tried doing a mixed evergreen and deciduous hex, but it's exceedingly hard to make it look anything but a mess.

I wonder what features would be important for airships beyond the usual settlement hexes.

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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Havard » Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:49 pm

Thorf wrote:I wonder what features would be important for airships beyond the usual settlement hexes.
In the one Talislanta Campaign I played in (briefly), there were landing towers that you could tie your Skyships to. Usually they would not land on the ground. Most of the time these landing towers were within cities, but they could be found isolated as well.

Also, how about areas that could affect the winds above?

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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Ambreville » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:06 pm

I had toyed with the idea when I designed Floating Ar of maps showing seasonal air currents, up/downdrafts, areas of turbulence, temperature, rate of ice buildup, flying monsters migration routes, magical ley lines, regularly traveled routes, etc. This would require a totally different sort of map that doesn't rely as much on what lies on the surface, other than terrain altitudes. The usefulness of such cartography should be relevant to skyship navigation (and have an effect on gameplay, as well as large scale military applications). These maps actually require multiple iterations which take into account 3D aspects of an aerial environment, showing in particular general wind directions at low, mid, and high elevations, and their relative strengths. For example, blue gradients could be encoded as hex symbols to show average wind directions and perhaps speed, figuring the impact of terrain elevation, etc. Traveling skyports could also be figured in, especially on large scale maps, with a schedule of where they'd likely be on a given week. Bit of an egg-head thing all this, but useful nonetheless within the context of life aboard skyships.
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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:24 am

@Bruce- That would have been a really interesting map to see! I have toyed with the idea of trying to do either/both a Broken Lands/Underground map and/or Flying Ar using the layers functions in order to get different elevations, etc. A big undertaking (and one that didn't work out quite so well the one time I tried it, though I've become a better user in the interim so who knows).

@Thorf- I think one thing that would be great to see, not so much different hexes per biome, but somehow being able to better represent elevations. I think your idea in the Calidar map, with different colors for hexes, is a good start, but I think it is limited simply due to the more imprecise nature of hex maps.

I'm not sure I have a good suggestion for otherwise, though. Offhand, I'm thinking either something like the Blackmoor maps from DA3, where the hexes were more blank colored features, and the colors on the map were painted around to give more of a sense of differing terrain (DaveL from the Piazza did some replicas a while back, if you don't recall offhand what I'm talking about).

Another option would be something like the old elevation style curves from the old blue and white maps from TSR modules (such as B2: Keep on the Borderlands), which would show the elevations. Maybe that style of mapping could be combined in layers, so that you could turn on/off elevations?
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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by Chimpman » Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:11 am

Thorf wrote:Both the mountains and the hills are completely new art, although I wasn't able to come up with anything radically different for the hills that I was happy with. So I settled on a slightly different style of art, implying the gullies and ravines in the side of hills and mountains.
For hills, what about offsetting the three hill lines in the same way as the mountains are offset, but just make the lines less convex. In other words lay out the hills in a kind of triangle pattern, rather than on top of one another. That would give it a very different feel from the standard Mystara hexes.

@Bruce
That's along the same lines as I was thinking as well. Something that could be used as navigational charts by an aspiring airship captain on Calidar. It might work on a hex map... or it might not. But I'd be interested in seeing a prototype or quick proof of concept.
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Re: Calidar Hex Map - Stretch Goal Reached!

Post by julius_cleaver » Mon May 12, 2014 1:03 am

Ambreville wrote:I had toyed with the idea when I designed Floating Ar of maps showing seasonal air currents, up/downdrafts, areas of turbulence, temperature, rate of ice buildup, flying monsters migration routes, magical ley lines, regularly traveled routes, etc. This would require a totally different sort of map that doesn't rely as much on what lies on the surface, other than terrain altitudes. The usefulness of such cartography should be relevant to skyship navigation (and have an effect on gameplay, as well as large scale military applications). These maps actually require multiple iterations which take into account 3D aspects of an aerial environment, showing in particular general wind directions at low, mid, and high elevations, and their relative strengths. For example, blue gradients could be encoded as hex symbols to show average wind directions and perhaps speed, figuring the impact of terrain elevation, etc. Traveling skyports could also be figured in, especially on large scale maps, with a schedule of where they'd likely be on a given week. Bit of an egg-head thing all this, but useful nonetheless within the context of life aboard skyships.
Yes! This would be a great idea for Calidar!
Chimpman wrote:I'd actually like to see a completely unique set of hexes for Calidar. The mountains are similar, but different enough. I think I'd like to see something different with the hills. Some other ideas for consideration:

- named peaks. It would be really cool to see the named peaks delineated from the rest of the mountain range.
- new hexes for magical terrain or features - for example where Seitha can be found.
- new forest hexes for evergreen and deciduous forests. Perhaps even special hexes for taiga or boreal forests
- hexes or icons for features that are important to airships?
I agree with everything Chimpman put here...I like the idea of there being elevations for locations. Not just mountains. I have always found it very helpful when surface lake elevations are present on topographical maps. I used to work in geometronics department of the USFS, and found this feature on USGS quadrangles really helpful.
It gives some indication of what the weather might be like. Hey...it snows in Hawaii and the Atlas mountains...
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