Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

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Havard
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Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Havard » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:09 pm

I thought the Nentir Vale debuted with D&D 4E, but Big Mac told me some 3.5E books have Nentir Vale material in them? How many books from 3E have Nentir Vale material?

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Zeromaru X » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:23 pm

I guess it would be more accurate to say these places were added to the Nentir Vale lore later in 4E, to expand on the setting.

I'm aware of Red Hand of Doom, Fortress of the Yuan-ti, The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, and Cityscape.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Big Mac » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:54 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:23 pm
I guess it would be more accurate to say these places were added to the Nentir Vale lore later in 4E, to expand on the setting.

I'm aware of Red Hand of Doom, Fortress of the Yuan-ti, The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, and Cityscape.
Do you know if any of the online content or thing from Dragon and Dungeon Magazines led up to Nentir Vale and Nerath?
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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Havard » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:42 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:23 pm
I guess it would be more accurate to say these places were added to the Nentir Vale lore later in 4E, to expand on the setting.

I'm aware of Red Hand of Doom, Fortress of the Yuan-ti, The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, and Cityscape.
Ahh, I had forgotten that this was the setting of Red Hand of Doom. I didn't know that these other products also tied into the same setting.

Thanks! :)

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:25 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:54 pm
Do you know if any of the online content or thing from Dragon and Dungeon Magazines led up to Nentir Vale and Nerath?
The only books I'm aware of about this, were the 4e preview books, and there was nothing about world-building, just the concepts behind the PoL setting.

I guess they added these places later in 4e's progression, when they began to need places for adventures beyond Nentir Vale.

For instance, the relationship between Nentir Vale and Elsir Vale was made early in 4e's life, while the relationship with Cityscape was made in Psionic Power, a very late product in the edition's line. Most of the relationships are from Conquest of Nerath, in fact.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by RichGreen » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:51 pm

Hmmm.... I though Elsir Vale was originally meant to be in the Shining South of Faerun.

Map here: https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/richgre ... 19_800.jpg

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Zeromaru X » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:36 pm

Elsir Vale was created for the Greyhawk-lite core setting of 3.x books, with a conversion for the Forgotten Realms. They made it part of the PoL setting in the earliest 4e Dungeon mags, tho.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by JoeNotCharles » Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:41 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:23 pm
I guess it would be more accurate to say these places were added to the Nentir Vale lore later in 4E, to expand on the setting.

I'm aware of Red Hand of Doom, Fortress of the Yuan-ti, The Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, and Cityscape.
It depends on what you mean by "Nentir Vale". It was the sample map in the 4E PHB and many published 4E adventures were set there. But using it as the name of the ENTIRE 4E setting is a bit like calling the BECMI setting "Karameikos" .

A lot of people use it as the name for the entire 4E setting, or at least all of it except other planes, because they dislike having a setting without a name. But it can be confusing.

The Elsir Vale from Red Hand of Doom (3E) was also the setting of the first few adventures of the Scales of War adventure path for 4E, which was an explicit sequel. And a few other references made it clear that you could get from the Elsir Vale to the Nentir Vale (I forget the details though) so it's part of the 4E default setting, not just a prominent 4E adventure path with a different setting.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:21 pm

RichGreen wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:51 pm
Hmmm.... I though Elsir Vale was originally meant to be in the Shining South of Faerun.

Map here: https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/richgre ... 19_800.jpg
That looks like one of Markustay's mashup maps to me. He made one that merged Mahasarpa into Kara-Tur and it looked so good that someone stuck it on Forgotten Realms Wiki (without attributing it as a non-canon map).
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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:23 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:36 pm
Elsir Vale was created for the Greyhawk-lite core setting of 3.x books, with a conversion for the Forgotten Realms. They made it part of the PoL setting in the earliest 4e Dungeon mags, tho.
Greyhawk-lite, huh?

I wonder where Elsir Vale would fit onto the map of Oerth. :?
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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by ripvanwormer » Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:55 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:23 pm
Zeromaru X wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:36 pm
Elsir Vale was created for the Greyhawk-lite core setting of 3.x books, with a conversion for the Forgotten Realms. They made it part of the PoL setting in the earliest 4e Dungeon mags, tho.
Greyhawk-lite, huh?

I wonder where Elsir Vale would fit onto the map of Oerth. :?
Living Greyhawk put it in Sterich.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Matrix Sorcica » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:40 am

Big Mac wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:21 pm
RichGreen wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:51 pm
Hmmm.... I though Elsir Vale was originally meant to be in the Shining South of Faerun.

Map here: https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/richgre ... 19_800.jpg
That looks like one of Markustay's mashup maps to me. He made one that merged Mahasarpa into Kara-Tur and it looked so good that someone stuck it on Forgotten Realms Wiki (without attributing it as a non-canon map).
Nope. That's an official map someone placed "Elsir Vale" on. For Markus' take, look here: https://www.deviantart.com/markustay/ar ... -689644819

He also had another version with Nentir Vale placed just above the Elsir (at the location in the map I linked to). He has since taken it offline, but I guess I can post it myself, if there's interest?

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by RagingOwlbear » Tue May 07, 2019 3:19 pm

IIRC, Elsir Vale was inserted into the Barony of Therund during 4e. According to the Conquest or Nerath board game, this is southwest of the Nentir Vale, directly west from Vor Rukoth and Sarthel.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Matrix Sorcica » Tue May 07, 2019 3:21 pm

RagingOwlbear wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:19 pm
IIRC, Elsir Vale was inserted into the Barony of Therund during 4e.
Very sure it didn't.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Tim Baker » Tue May 07, 2019 4:01 pm

Matrix Sorcica wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:21 pm
RagingOwlbear wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:19 pm
IIRC, Elsir Vale was inserted into the Barony of Therund during 4e.
Very sure it didn't.
Would you elaborate, please? Providing a correction is fine, but simply stating that someone is wrong without further explanation isn't very helpful to the community.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Zeromaru X » Tue May 07, 2019 9:13 pm

Elsir Vale is part of the Nerathi empire, but there was no specified placement beyond it was located in an "tropical climate", and the Winterbole Forest was located "way to the north" of Elsir Vale.

I've always believed that the Elsir Vale is located off-map of the territories depicted in the Conquest of Nerath map. I place the Golden Plains in the Elsir Vale's map next to the Golden Savanah in the Nerath map, the places fit nicely. Plus, the climate fits as well.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Matrix Sorcica » Tue May 07, 2019 9:20 pm

Tim Baker wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:01 pm
Matrix Sorcica wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:21 pm
RagingOwlbear wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 3:19 pm
IIRC, Elsir Vale was inserted into the Barony of Therund during 4e.
Very sure it didn't.
Would you elaborate, please? Providing a correction is fine, but simply stating that someone is wrong without further explanation isn't very helpful to the community.

Thanks in advance.
Sure. Elsir Vale is to the best of my knowledge (and i've been particulary attentive regarding the Elsir imnsho) only featured in 4E in the Scales of War AP. The only thing connecting that AP to the world of Nerath, is a mentioning of some old Nerathi ruins in the Elsir.

The Nentir Vale, on the other hand, is referred to being close to Therund, both in King of the Trollhaunt Warrens and in Conquest of Nerath (where the Elsir is absent). So I think maybe RagingOwlbear is mixing the two vales up.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Zeromaru X » Tue May 07, 2019 9:47 pm

Matrix Sorcica wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:20 pm
Sure. Elsir Vale is to the best of my knowledge (and i've been particulary attentive regarding the Elsir imnsho) only featured in 4E in the Scales of War AP. The only thing connecting that AP to the world of Nerath, is a mentioning of some old Nerathi ruins in the Elsir.
I'm not sure if it's also mentioned in Adventurers' Vault 2 or in Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium (going to check), but Elsir Vale is also included in the Nerath Empire's background in the Martial Power 2 sourcebook. There are a few regional feats and a battle style exclusive of the Elsir region in that book.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by RichGreen » Thu Jul 25, 2019 6:36 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:21 pm
RichGreen wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:51 pm
Hmmm.... I though Elsir Vale was originally meant to be in the Shining South of Faerun.

Map here: https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/richgre ... 19_800.jpg
That looks like one of Markustay's mashup maps to me. He made one that merged Mahasarpa into Kara-Tur and it looked so good that someone stuck it on Forgotten Realms Wiki (without attributing it as a non-canon map).
No, sorry - that was my map but the geography matches exactly. I think there was a last minute decision made by WotC to move it from the Realms to an unspecified setting. Can’t remember where I read that though.

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by solabusca » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:47 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:13 pm
I've always believed that the Elsir Vale is located off-map of the territories depicted in the Conquest of Nerath map. I place the Golden Plains in the Elsir Vale's map next to the Golden Savanah in the Nerath map, the places fit nicely. Plus, the climate fits as well.
Speaking of, did anyone ever do anything with the map I posted to support this theory? I seem to recall some folks saying they wanted to...

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Re: Pre 4E Nentir Vale Products?

Post by Zeromaru X » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:33 pm

I've used it in my campaign, though my players don't have an interest to travel that far to the south.

I have other project as well, but it needs that the DM's Guild opens up for the Nentir Vale, so I can share it without fear of WOTC suing me or something, lol

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