1 Mile Hex Mapping

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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:06 pm

Sturm wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:21 am
I used a 3.2 map originally done by Agathokles http://pandius.com/karameikos-3_2m.png which I think used Thorf's map as starting point and added some B-modules locations.
Then I also added the seats of several noble families, mostly from Karameikos Noble Families by Simone Neri http://pandius.com/knoblfam.html and then I also added some original location, so ask me if you do not find something.
You are right I did not used B10 informations however, should I find the time to revise the map, I will do it!
Thanx for the Background information. ;)
I think you no longer need to revise it...As the 1mile hex map for threshold is nearing its finish for my The Barrel article.. I am working on it Daily.
you will receive them asap together (probably 1 to 2 weeks)or seperate (probably map this week, the text up to 2 weeks from now) in the Threshold mail
Sorry, I cant go any faster. Real Life also gets in the way, I still have my neck injury so have to stop regularly, and the old material is badly written/damaged/or requires puzzling in the literal sense of tghe word as the mental sense to make it complete and logical. all in all a major overhaul :P
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Sturm
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:56 pm

No problem there is still time for issue #23, it will be published end June.
Editor of Threshold, the Mystara Magazine: http://pandius.com/thrs_mag.html

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:24 pm

Thanx,...then I'll ease down a bit.

btw I found these Illustrations from the Tainted Sword Novel decribing Bywater.

I have reposted it here to enable an image to be able to shown here. I Found out as these images are very difficult to find.
Image
And although it is mostly just out of the scope or area of my map, it might be interesting to all other gamers/players/mappers.
It is clear from these the artist did mixup the Highreach/Volaga with the Castellan River, as where they meet, the continue as Volaga/Highreach River and NOT Castellan River. And thus it is no wonder most gamers misplaced the location, especially after Escape from Thunder Rift reusing this location.
Also here the compass orientation seems to be right, while 90degrees off in EfTR.
I especially like the image on the left, as it also displayes how the stronholds look like, and where bridges and other locations (approximately) should be. For example the Bridge at Krakatos or Rugalove were unknown to me before this book.
As to my opinion on EfTR map "the Chase"on page 20 it would deem indeed more logical to place Bywater on the Castellan river (thus north of the Volaga/Highreach and Castellan Juncture), for the weird hills/mountains seem to fit there better than anywhere. However, as the Novel is the oldest canon source and EfTR literally follows that book (except the location maps apparently) and looking at the adventure. I deem it best to ignore the EfTR map, and place the locations of that map on the Tainted Sword map.
For Location 1 I would set it just north of Sielo's Fort, Location 2, three to five miles further up north(instead about 20), and then Bywater(location 3) one to two miles further north, thus following the river till the juncture, rhere following upstream the Volaga/Highreach and place the locations 4 and 5 in the region of the hills there. Intotal that would place Bywater four to seven miles north of Sielo's Fort....almost as the artist intended. and it would remove the weird hills/mountains from the map.
And the EfTR map of page 24 is much smaller, misses many buildings, and the ruins have much diferent shapes, has the compass and riverflow direction wrong, and of course as stated above the river name. So It may look interesting, yet holds its inconsistencies and flaws. Mostly due variant artists or writes who also don't look good at the older canon sources (or just forget it at all.)
Just something to ponder on.

Thanx Shawn, for storing these maps on Pandius, as the source was temporal, they are gone there.
Last edited by Robin on Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Argentmantle » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:48 am

I still wanna take the Judge's Guild every hex has an encounter mentality to Mystara... someday! Great work so far!!!

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:44 pm

Argentmantle wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:48 am
I still wanna take the Judge's Guild every hex has an encounter mentality to Mystara... someday! Great work so far!!!
Cool Thanx

That means thus that the amounts of adventures rise with my 1 mile maps from 1 per 8 mile hex to 7 per 1 mile hexes.
That's great.
Until now I mapped South Glantri, Broken Lands, Alfheim, most of East Darokin, The Darokin Rockhome Tunnel, The Great Pass of Sind/Hule, and the Isle of Carytion, I currently do something for the Threshold Magazine you might enjoy, and the 6 Ethengar(incl West Glantri, South Heldann, Northwest Vestland, North Rockhome) maps. My plans are finishing the Silver Sierras(before and after Meteor), Ylaruam (with a lot of Nithian/Morgeth ruins and maybe a Nithian map). Quedhar, Isle of Dread, and Rockhome are on the list too of becoming 1 mile hexed.
So I will surely continue see here the maps thus far; https://breathofmystara.blogspot.com/20 ... -list.html
and of course this topic where everything new will be added/spoken about.....as I trule need DM's and Gamers input too. besides the canon/fanon thusfar created. ;) :P
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:41 pm

my my. already three month further.
Mapping for Threshold took a weee bit more time than expected.

Ethengar North including south Heldann
Yet now I am back on the Ethengar maps.
I continued my work on Ethengar North; filled in the Aral Lake as created by the suggestions and canon as brought up above
Filling in the small highmoors, heath hills, and the new other lake (as of yet unnamed) but suggested by Seer of Yogh and his original map.
Filled in more detail and logic pertaining the battle locations on the Ethengar 8 mile hex maps to explain why the combat was there. more of these will follow. I also expanded the heath on the hills bringing more detail
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -780327662

Image

Slowly the hills become more clear, eveal more what is as of yet unknown. This is more or less how I imagine the region. The elevations, heath, stereams and such clearly clarify, why there have been battles mapped on some regions on the canon 8 mile map. This I will clarfiy further later,especially with giving the altitudes,
Image
as to other creators...if you have placed something in these hills, please, please inform me, and it will be inserted in this map, as it must be as complete as possible.
So please inform me if you have created something here, (or just an idea), and I see if it fits on the map.

Enjoy.
Yippe I am on the map again, and I smell the grass, the heath, and even a whisp of the highmoors, in the strong wind....feel the warmth of the sun yet also the cold force of the wind..typically Ethengar
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:18 pm

Ethengar North Including South Heldann.
Ok worked some more on the material Geoff/Seer of Yogh gave me.
and my suggestion here;

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15023&p=228208#p228208

To thank Geoff I called the lake; Schwarzsee of Yogh (this is Heldan/German for Black Lake of Yogh)

Schwarzsee of Yogh (Black Lake of Yogh)
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e1/50/03 ... 979151.jpg

Image
This area is actually an inundated valley. This happened for about 50 years ago, due to strange clouds over the Red Fang East (the witches are suspected, as other magical events, yet volcanism might belong to the possibilities too). The Yogh bach, Hexenbach and Red Fang Bach tripled in volume, way too much for the summer to evaporate. Since the event the waterflow has remained stabile, until it again increased in 1007 AC due the ashes of the crater impact in Darokin/Glantri.
Currently the water is everywhere between 3' and 5' deep, with the open areas between 10' and 15' deep. The bottom is sturdy and not muddy.

Due to three strange 20' tall dark-blue with purple glow 5' away crystals in the middle of the polluted lake, magic if strongly influenced.
Various spells and magic items do not work here; Movement (no Fly, Haste, Slow, Dimenstion Door, Transport through..., Teleport, Word of Recall, Airwalk, Feather fall). Spells of Evocation (Lightning & fire mostly) are reduced in effect, range and damage by 50%.,
Undead Turning is nullified here, similar to ANY healing spell, including Power Word spells.
Food created is instantly spoiled, as like water. Waterbreathing is possible yet the taste of the water is disgusting and one can no longer stay under water than the character's constitution in minutes, before becoming nauseated ad dizzy for 1 Turn thereafter (or more if not breathing air.)
Due to the constant wetness, fire has a 90% lower combustion rate on any normal combustible items/trees/bushes and such. Due this any creature in here resists half any fire damage and may safe vs. spells to suffer none at all.
As the fire spells are already reduced in range, effects and damage, they become very weak in effect. The caster (if wet) may be enveloped within the shortened range of of any spell, and has the same benefit of this severe magical handicap.
Spells which give you wings, or faster legs, or otherwise increase your natural abilities are not affected.

Bacharituy is the Nucklavee living in the North. He is the one who made the drowned people of the castle and village into undead. He currently obeys Laimë-fenuqámen, but does so grudgelingly.

The Black Dragon Laimë-fenuqámen lives here in the lake.He is named by Elves for over a century ago (and likes this name after discovering its meaning; Shadowtoxin), and is actually the cause of the area inundation when it ascended to a Huge Dragon. It had its severe battlles with Khanistar the Blue Dragon Ruler in Ethengar. Yet neither was succesful in defeating the other. Laimë-fenuqámen Is currently at easy and preparing his last growth stages of HD before attempting to become an Immortal soul.(as per http://www.pandius.com/immguard.html This dragon has 23 other dragons in his pyramid of power(mostly Green, Jade,or Red,
a few White and one Amber), all active in the Heldann Freeholds. His personal real streches nortwards almost to Freiburg; it is the purple rectangle on the east Rad Fang Mountain including the eastern mountains close to Freiburg.https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -516451491
The dragon's name for Shadowtoxin is to thank him for his awesome art https://www.furaffinity.net/view/23758631/ .

I also created the Hexentanzplatz (Witch dance floor) is a shrine like place for introducing new members to the local order of witches and mages.
Teufelsschlosse ( Devils castle) is a very large mansion where several members live and study, and where the members pay hommage to new members
Hexen treppe (Witchstairs) is a very long irregular stair of 8 mile long where the witches run down to the deep below Bodetal (Bode valley) and the Teufelswaschbecken (Devils wash basin) where the Bodetal waldkaters (Clan of wildcat Rakastas) live.
Here they babtise new members and go together up the miles long stair again in wild bacchanalian lust, where they end the festival in a hellish dance with the cats (yes the witches and the Rakastas do mate), goats, broom and hayfork.
These mages and witches are mostly religous (or at least aknowledge these in respect) and refugees from Glantri due this.
I based this on my earlier idea based on ;
https://www.deviantart.com/yesterdays-p ... -712131064


Here the newest update of the map.
Image
And its link to download if you so desire for better detail (use the green arrow button right)
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -780327662

This work also affected the map of
Ethengar NE and SE Heldann
which as thus is updated too;
Image
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -782037337

As to Geoff; I know you are an avid writer, and Mystara fan ;) . If this ignites you to write an adventure or background on this, you can use the section off the map as needed, as it that region of Heldann is now 95% finished.
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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:46 pm

Ethengar N
Ok beginning to add detailing according ecology rules.
As most fluidic rules are now placed on the northern section of Ethengar and the Heldann hills.
so somewhere in the neary future, comes the most tedious and hardest of all; adding altitudes according canon, fluidity rules, and geographic movement.
Yet first all the detailing, and especially the Sea of Flowers will have its interesting effects, as i have to take into account the great seasonal changes as per; https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -781523167
Image

A picture of the colorful landscape in summer, viewing west to the faraway Glantrian Mountains
Image
Click here for download to see in more detail
https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -780327662

Any input by anybody is still more than welcome :P
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:10 pm

If I would (as I planned to make)
all the Known World in 1 mile hex maps, and print these out (not something planned) than as counting from the Trail maps I would make 135 x8 hexes north to south, and 184 x8 hexes NE to SW.
That would make 1080 hexes N to S
and 1472 hexes NE to SW
As I have made the hexes as large as the hexes already used on the Trail map, (7.5 mm each)

then we would have a map of 1080x7.5mm= 8100mm-810 cm=8,1 meters high
1472x7.5mm=11040mm=1104cm= 11,04 meters NW to SW. multiplying this by 0.666 to calculate east to west insteads NE to SW is an 7.36 meter
Image
A giganormous work of 11.04 x7.36 meters.
and that does not include the bordering regions (Heldann, Wendar, Sind, AdriVarma)of which also some miles are drawn in due the irregular shape of the countries

Till now I have done the Canolbarth (including large sections Darokin), Broken Lands (including large sections Darokin, Glantri), Ethengar is steady on the go(including large sections of Rockhome, Glantri, Heldann, Vestland)
and I have already worked on small sections of Thyatis, Karameikos, Glantri, Rockhome.
Micky has done most of Glantri in 1 mile hexes, and where not the work of Betti fills in the gaps.
Darokin is made somewhat easier due the 2.66 mile hex fan maps
Some sections of Karameikos exist in 1, 3, 3.2, 2,66 mile making my work easier still.
(although several of these sources are contradicting the others, and the various sources have to fit, need fluidic, geologic, historic, ecologic detailing/adaptation/readjustment to the various sources, before kore detail can be added).

Much work to do before I die (which I have not planned for the next 30 years :P)
And the more I do, the more I enter the world of Mystara as if it is real.
Like as if I step into my ancestors shoes mapping the unknown
Funny
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:00 pm

Ok
While making the map I also had to name all the clans.
The following list is not complete... yet
although the Kaeruts, Yugatais, and Tajits are


Kaerut 52 clans
Altandei
Alwasjar
Asudai
Barka
Batuhai
Batzoringjag
Berke
Bogader
Bolad
Boladjar
Chenghiztani
Damdindei
Danzin
Dulma
Dzhambul
Erden
Goibban
Gombo
Hasihasidei
Hatu
Hayathan
Huaji
Huyanlugu
Iligin
Jamyang
Kahak
Lhagbajab
Lubsang
Magghudai
Manjusri
Medekhuidar
Migmardei
Nuursürüng
Ochdei
Odgerei
Ogtbish
Orus
Qagan
Sevenjab
Taimoorkhan
Taramis
Tarkhan
Telekdar
Timattidei
Tuli
Turgen
Tuvok
Ulatai
Yamun
Yestaide
Yisu
Yul

Yugatai 49 clans
Altan
Basi
Bataardei
Bektor
Cagdurdei
Chimei
Dawa
Enebish
Grokatürüng
Hasi
Hulagu
Kaskin
Kassar
Khenbish
Kojader
Madutai
Makbai
Mangu
Medujab
Muunokhoi
Naraanbataar
Nayan
Nimasürüng
Numughan
Ochir
Oddei
Ortu
Ortuge
Potor
Rinchin
Rtuda
Rus
Sartaqge
Sukh
Sukhbataar
Sukhiab
Tara
Taradai
Tarkhan
Teleksürüng
Temujin
Timicin
Toktai
Tudader
Tulabugha
Vasilasjab
Xanadu
Yesugai
Yuljab

Tajiit 41 clans
Abaka
Babar
Babatidai
Chagatai
Dari
Degke
Dol Anuursurung
Essen
Gaidu
Ganzorig
Ghazan
Hijasurung
Jamuga
Kassarder
Katu
Kuyuk
Layleidai
Medu
Mostadan
Muunokdai
Naimanzuunadintsetseg
Naraan-Kjin
Nargabai
Nergüidar
Nomidai
Ogodai
Otgonbayar
Potornuur
Shavartai Alkhagch
Subutai
Sustidan
Tarkhasurung
Temur
Timur
Tuli
Ulgatai
Ullgetsai
Undsen-anchid
Vasilas
Wourick
Yukyit

Uighur Incomplete thus far 40 clans
Batsaikhandei
Batzorig
Beg-Tshe
Bimba Dorji
Boladjab
Buqa
Chagha’an
Chinuajab
Chuluunbold
Danzidei
Dorjider
Eljigidey
Gan
Gasukhdei
Hayagriva
Heldanntai
Jochidai
Julian
Kevissürüng
Mahakala
Matardei
Medekhgui
Mongolekhorniiugluu
Nergüi
Obiwanndai
Ochirdei
Od
OdShadursúrüng
Pürbüjab
Riid Anchin
Rus
Rusdar
Tarage
Tenet-Su
Terbish
Tetondei
Timujab
Vajrapani
Vitalader
Yulgei

Murkit incomplete thus far 22 clans
Barghadar
Bat Erderne
Damrin
Danzin
Etheshjin
Genghis
Iliginder
Jochidai
Joghdai
Khunbish
Köke
Laghba
Monghbat
Möngke
Nimadei
Nugai
Qarasürüng
Salkhi unadag dugui
Shagdur
Spir-Cretia
Sukhdei
Terbish

Yakkas incomplete thus far 9 clans
Agwang
Anaktai
Dol Streeldei
Domitai
Lhagba
Sartaqdar
Sishtaidei
Toqto'a
Yamkat

Kiyats incomplete


Bortaks incomplete

I will add more when the appear on my maps
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Seer of Yhog
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Seer of Yhog » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:09 pm

Robin wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:18 pm
As to Geoff; I know you are an avid writer, and Mystara fan ;) . If this ignites you to write an adventure or background on this, you can use the section off the map as needed, as it that region of Heldann is now 95% finished.
Thank you! Maybe I will come up with something. ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:10 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:09 pm
Robin wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:18 pm
As to Geoff; I know you are an avid writer, and Mystara fan ;) . If this ignites you to write an adventure or background on this, you can use the section off the map as needed, as it that region of Heldann is now 95% finished.
Thank you! Maybe I will come up with something. ;)
Cool ;)
The scene has been set, (based on your information, suggestions and 8 mile hex map) now the action :twisted:
I eagerly await, if and when. :P
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:34 pm

Question
Glantri has its Principalities and divided in viscounties and free provinces
Heldann is named originally Heldann Freeholds
Ok the Knights have taken over, and subjugated the populace in following Vanya, and her doctrine, instead the narmal present Nordic faith.
However, before that there were the Freeholds.
And there lies the problem.
I can see the knights takeover, and controlling, however, socio-economically remnants of the old freeholds would still exist...maybe now as provinces.
Is there any information on which Freeholds did exist, and what these Freeholds did behest?
Who ruled them, what towers/keeps/castles did they hold and which settlements were mentioned.
Canon or Fanon.
I am specifically interested in the most southern Freeholds if any, as then I could start to create freehold/province borders as they were (or should have been)

So my question is....Is there any canon or fanon information on these individual Freeholds? Especially names, locations would help.Any more is very very welcome :P
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:12 pm

I would exclude canon, but probably here you can find some fan info: http://pandius.com/heldann.html
mostly here: http://pandius.com/The_Heldannic_Knights.pdf and here I guess http://pandius.com/hkpopn.html and http://pandius.com/hktax.html
But I'm not sure either source answers your question, as probably none tackled the matter of how much really the Heldannic Order control the territory, and to what extent it has replaced the original ruling class. Looking at the Knights general behaviour, I would say the original ruling class has been completely destroyed except for a few which were willing to join the Order.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:03 pm

Thanx Sturm. Checking this out.

Another Question on another map.
As told I made a map for Threshold #23 and #24.
I question myself this, and could not locate it (yet) in the Penhaligon Trilogy books by JB Heinrich.
Yet where was the Lair of Verdilith the large or huge green dragon located?
If anybody knows please tell me (even if it is only the page in one of the book(s), for then I could place it on the map as it should.
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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Aug 01, 2019 2:23 pm

Karameikos
For the Threshold Magazine #23 and #24 I made this 1-mile-hex map of the Southeast region of Karameikos, otherwise known as the Dymrak Forest.
Ok. Threshold 24 is out, see viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22284
So the map can be revealed

Here the map of the Dymrak Forest region I created based on The 1981-1983 6 mile hex maps of the Expert set (here combined)
and the B10 3 mile hex map for more detail both used as the main base of the map
(as Thorf said the oldest most detailed source takes precedence)
Other sources

Sources Fanon material:
http://pandius.com/nekaram.html & http://pandius.com/32karamp.html by Agathokles (Giampaolo Acosta),
http://pandius.com/kara1020.html by Sturm (Francesco Deferari),
http://mystara.thorfmaps.com/b10-eastern-karameikos-3/ by Thorf (Thorfinn Tait),
my earlier work by Robin,
B10 detail maps in Campaign Cartographer and GIF formats
Compilation research of the area; https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -788886325
Taymora map overlay 2300BC and 1000AC by Chimpman
Known world map 3050 BC by Sturm
Penhaligon Trilogy inside cover maps

Canon sources;
B1-9; “In search of Adventure”, B10: “Night’s Dark Terror”, DDA4: “The Dymrak Dread”, X1: “Isle of Dread”, TM1: “The Western Countries Trailmap”
TM2: “The Eastern Countries Trailmap”, GAZ1: “The Grand Duchy of Karameikos” , GAZ6: “The Dwarves of Rockhome”, GAZ7: “The Northern Reaches”, GAZ9: “The Minrothad Guilds”, “Dawn of the Emperors”, “Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure”, PC1: “Tall Tales of the Weefolk”, PC2: “Top Ballista”, PC3: “The Sea People”, PC4: “Night Howlers!”, The Penhaligon Trilogy novels (“The Tainted Sword”, “The Dragon’s Tomb”, and “The Fall of Magic”) by D.J.Heinrich.

Work done in Paint, using this legend;
Using geomorpholy, flowpatterns, ecology, geology and general sociocultural behavioral/movement known rules.

Maybe funny to know. :ugeek: :o the islands You see on the side of the map, except lake of Lost Dreams Island, all of these were created of small flaws in Sturms map. These brown blots/glitches, so proofed to be interesting. Something I call; "The map creates itself", :shock: and something I truly enjoyed. :mrgreen:

Map is also link
Image

One final remark I noticed during creating this map (and the expansion i am also working on).
We all did it wrong..yes You and I and even canon did make our maps of Karameikos, south Darokin, East Five Shires and West Thyatis wrong...yes wrong!!!
The 1981-1983 6 mile hex maps of the Expert set was used as the base to create the region. The mountains had valleys and other areas of detail. With the canon enlargement of the hex scale to 8 miles per hex,most of this detail was lost. Due the 8 mile hex size the 6 mile hex details were obscured in the mass, and became lost...understandable, ...yet not funny...
As these 8 mile hex maps were used as the standard all the older more detailed information was forgotten by most. canon creators and fan mappers used the 8 mile hex maps as a base to bring detail, sometimes in another scale (3, 2.66, and 1 mile) yet still based on the 8 mile hex map, which thus lacks the detail of the expertset maps of 6 mile. Mountains became larger clogs of rocch, valleys dissapeared, rivers were bent to follow 8 mile hex lines (why I don't know) , threshold moved to the east, Lost valley moved along the various maps, the rivers windrush, shuttergaland volaga no longer merging in a threefold, yet seperated, rivers bend and twisted, and the lake windrush being different, in shape, size and location with literally every map, rivers on 8 mile hex were ridiculously wide, and many of the variant authors did not use (were unaware off, or forgot to use) the older more detailed areas when trying to map in detail, etc etc. I could continue much further.
the B10 3 mile hex map did use the X1 maps and brought greater detail to the mapped regions.

As all the canon maps and the fanon maps, however beuatiful and detailed they are do not have the original detail of X1/B10. The various authors used the 8 mile hex maps as a base, created very nice works, sometimes based on other maps, and so flaws grew, expanded, and went out of the original canon 6 mile line.
I tried (and still am trying) to restore this flaw, make Karameikos interesting again (as was intended).
With this I try to make the Karameikos 1 mile hex map based on X1(6 miles) and B10(3 and 2 miles). while still inseting the canon and fanon details the maps used in 8 mile (or other scales based on the 8 mile hex maps). Sometimes i have to shift locations slightly.
My main intent is making the map as complete as possible, giving merit to all maps, historic detail, area desriptions in books, gazetteers, stories, and more

One thing we should take care of in mapping, of this region, is not to use the block sized mounrtains obscuring details due their size.
More on this soon...
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Robin
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:38 pm

Karameikos
Karameikos Mapping Study
I used the 1981-1983 6 mile hex maps of the Expert set (here combined) and and the B10 3 mile hex map as a base for the maps and reveal the issues I met, and how the map grows. Hereafter X1 and B10 in short


Here the X1 6 mile hexes is overlaid on the B10 3 mile hex maps.
Clearly can be seen that the artist Geoff Wingate of B10 did use the X1 maps as a base.
He did make some differences though which are revealed through this map.
1; The Volaga river has a less sharp bend
2; The Syereb river is created
3; Haven lake and Rugalov River are created
4; forest borders are laid out, mostly following X1, yet are to the Dymrak West a wee bit short
5; some areas are obscured by artful borders and clouds, yet can be revealed using X1
6; the other rivers diverge slightly
7; the lost vally now is closed in on all sides which was not in X1, and placed several miles more south
8; Mountain edges seem overall consistent to X1, yet minor variations are visible
9; Steap cliffs are created along the merging of the Castellan and Volaga rivers

Map is also link
Image

Overall the B10 seems to be an excellent expansion on detail of the original X1 map(s)

By using the B10/X1 overlay and the already finished section of canon and fanon I have now a base to work on.
http://pandius.com/nekaram.html & http://pandius.com/32karamp.html by Agathokles (Giampaolo Acosta),
http://pandius.com/kara1020.html by Sturm (Francesco Deferari), and Dymrak https://www.deviantart.com/6inchnails/a ... -804091369 by me
Conflicting areas seem minor...as of yet...and as far as can be foreseen seem minor.
Greatest conflict thus far is the Volaga River going south, and the Radlebb forest

The Karameikos map thus far. Map is also link
Image

As said conflicts between maps thus far are low, and workable... some however are not...I will come back to this later..

And don't be afraid...I still work daily on the Ethengar maps, of which the NW seems almost finished, followed by SW
Last edited by Robin on Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Sturm » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:09 pm

Great, Karameikos in 1mph is a dream come true :-)
Editor of Threshold, the Mystara Magazine: http://pandius.com/thrs_mag.html

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:25 pm

Sturm wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:09 pm
Great, Karameikos in 1mph is a dream come true :-)
I agree
Although all the variant sources, mapping scales of canon and fanon often are conflicting. a 1 mile hex map giving honour to all the contributors must be possible.
I long desired to do this, and my work on the map for the Barrel article in Threshold 23 was the swing on swifel to start that engine.

As this is also a discussion...anybody, please step in , ....and place your opinion, ideas, suggestions, hints, links, what I am missing, doing good or wrong, or what ya'ma-callit.
Any help is welcome.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Irondrake » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:39 pm

Robin, the Karameikos map you have created is a thing of pure beauty. I absolutely love it. And it could not come at a more perfect time, as later this month my player characters will be adventuring in and around Rugalov Village. Thank you for this amazing piece of work! Your dedication to your craft is nothing short of stellar!

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Yaztromo » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:09 pm

Sturm wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:09 pm
Great, Karameikos in 1mph is a dream come true :-)
Mystara fans can be extremely patient and dreams dreamt for long time are fantastic when they come true.
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:36 pm

Irondrake wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:39 pm
Robin, the Karameikos map you have created is a thing of pure beauty. I absolutely love it. And it could not come at a more perfect time, as later this month my player characters will be adventuring in and around Rugalov Village. Thank you for this amazing piece of work! Your dedication to your craft is nothing short of stellar!
wow thanx
Praise accepted and willingly added to my heart ♥

I hear that most players and DM alike enjoy the detail, up to the height of adding altitides.
A DM here in my home town said;
It is as if we now can describe the area in such detail that characters can recognize destinctive areas from our words alone...
Maybe that's the detail I like, as for me it is often indeed as if I walk around there....I did not like those pesky goblins though.
Image
Keep Threshold 24 in eye...as ALL locations are gonna be detailed there. Thanx to Sturm's help every settlement is now to be known, and basically described.

And as you can see, I could not help myself....poor me.....I have begun to do the map of whole Karameikos, or at least a very large chunk of it.
Any comments , ideas, suggestions, are as always welcome.
Yaztromo wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:09 pm
Sturm wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:09 pm
Great, Karameikos in 1mph is a dream come true :-)
Mystara fans can be extremely patient and dreams dreamt for long time are fantastic when they come true.
Thanx...some patience is indeed required...as I am now doing 7 maps at the same time...and this is a tricky one...with scales, hexsizes, canon sources, fanon sources and often in full or slight conflict.
Still I enjoy doing it.
If you have to add something Just say...all help is more than welcome.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:07 pm

Karameikos
Work today added
http://www.pandius.com/Threshold_21_Mar ... te_Map.png of Threshold 21 page 192 by allen palmer based on work by Sean Meaney and Sturm
I lessened the ridiculous wide Volaga river. Normal flowing rivers more not than rarely have a width of 3 to 4 miles, so I reduced it to the width as X1/B10 gave, about 0.5 to 1.1 mile.
It is sometimes difficult to really feel distances and sizes when doing maps. Me being Dutch and used to wide rivers can mimic this to normal sizes , and place these on the map.
Then I started to make all hexes as the hexes I used.Placed a scaled down to size Specularum (a very detailed measuring and calculation made Specularum just a bit more than 1 hex) and becoming confused by the contradictions of the various sources on the Volaga river; The river width, direction, pattern and even joining is varried on lierally ALL the sources...none is equal to the other.

The largest conflict lies in placing the joining of the Windrush river more north (8 mile hex maps of gaz1/TM2) which neglected the detailed information of X1/B10.
as the jumbled mess reveals the whole area is lierally a conflict zone.
See here the overlapping of all canon and fanon sources on the same location;...ouch
Image
As the oldest and most detailed sources (even those other than X1/B10) use the three-fold joining instead the two-fold joining followed by another joining close to Kelvin as per gazeteer 1/TM2 maps and following fanon maps...I decided to continue to follow the X1/B10 on this.

I filled in all the mountain and hill areas in the north-east as per X1/B10 and also continued the destroyed mountains as suggested due the 2300BC and 1000AC overlay map of Chimpman
see here lower left corner
and found on the Dymrak map. These Thunder Mountains are an extension of the Zargash Mountains, and create the backside of the Haven Valley.
The large glob of mountains on the Gazetteer maps in the north now slowly become more interesting and detailed.
And....even fanon is still applicable and used

Here the map thusfar
picture is also the link, use the green download button right for best detail
Image

As to my earlier point (see above posts) ..the difference between the variant canon sources of X1 and Gaz later and the fanon use of these later sources making great flawed input on the otherwise great fanon maps.

In the red area X1(6 miles hex) which led to B10 (3 mile hex), and Order of the Griffon Maps(non hex)
In the blue area then the 8 mile hex conversion from X1 to Gazeteer 1/Trailmap2 maps)
Which led to Fanmaps 8 mile hex forested, and smaller scaled 2.7 mile hex by Simone Neri and 3.2 mile hex by Sturm/Agathokles
Clearly can be seen the lack of valleys and the fanon map mountain shapes based on the 8 miles hexes instead the finer detailed x1 6 mile hexes.

Image
Don't get me wrong ...I still like the awesomeness of all these maps, yet these flaws I try to correct, to come to the best map of Karameikos thus far
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:25 pm

One extra note; Hsiaou feed on Kobolds and Goblins. their silent glide at attack grasp and flight often gets these humanoids confused where a member of their group suddenly went missing
see this awesome video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUkvEeHVrOU
and find resemblances
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:53 pm

Karameikos
Next stage

Continued on the mountains and northern hills trying to follow B10 in detail. The confusion of the rivers close to Kelvin I resolve later. Worked on the region of Bywater

Bywater is a special case on itself
As being depicted in the Penhaligon Trilogy, its decorative maps, and the DM master screen adventure escape from Thunder Rift, it holds many contradictions.
Image

DMR1 is off, totally off; not only do the rename the Volaga into Castellan River while the Castelland ends in the Violaga River, they also reversed its current in the detail map of Bywater. They place mountains and hills where there are none, don't take any earlier canon map in full consideration while making this one. I thus assume DMR 1 was made on the illustrative maps of the penhaligon Trilogy instead on any of the known Karameikos maps. The good thing this map gave was the location of Bywater, the fords and some extra minor locations, and the passage into the west over the Bywater ford.

What did I do. The grasslands of B10 supercede the rocky mountain of DMR1
The Cliff hills of B10 supercede the DMR1 map on the northern side (the otherside can be assumed as being these cliffs)
The wetlands south of Bywater appear in Gazetteer 1, TM2, and Sturm's map, yet are hills on the DMR1 map and also seems to contain a mountain. this is adjusted accordingly
Bywater is calculated from the DMR1 and PHT trilogy text and combined.
With these the other locatuons became known and the gfords in the river.
All combined are shown in the B10 map of the compilation(in red)

The whole map thus far has now become this
Maps is also link, use green download button there for best detail
Image

Any input is more than welcome
:mrgreen:
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